802
edits
The Quran and Mountains: Difference between revisions
m
→Earth anchored by mountains in early or pre-Islamic poetry: Linked the page on cosmic oceans to this one.
| [checked revision] | [checked revision] |
m (→Earth anchored by mountains in early or pre-Islamic poetry: Linked the page on cosmic oceans to this one.) |
|||
| Line 65: | Line 65: | ||
Though the idea of mountains preventing the world from shaking is far more ancient, being found even in much earlier Vedic texts,<ref>[https://www.britannica.com/topic/Veda Veda] | Hinduism | Britannica Entry | Though the idea of mountains preventing the world from shaking is far more ancient, being found even in much earlier Vedic texts,<ref>[https://www.britannica.com/topic/Veda Veda] | Hinduism | Britannica Entry | ||
''..No definite date can be ascribed to the composition of the Vedas, but the period of about 1500–1200 BCE is acceptable to most scholars..''</ref> along with a similar creation story of the [[Scientific Errors in the Quran#Earth%20and%20heavens%20torn%20apart|Earth and sky being split]] in {{Quran|21|30}} and cosmic waters, with all three being folklore of ancient people.<ref>Witzel, E.J. Michael. The Origins of the World's Mythologies (p. 137). Oxford University Press. | ''..No definite date can be ascribed to the composition of the Vedas, but the period of about 1500–1200 BCE is acceptable to most scholars..''</ref> along with a similar creation story of the [[Scientific Errors in the Quran#Earth%20and%20heavens%20torn%20apart|Earth and sky being split]] in {{Quran|21|30}} and [[:en:A_Barrier_Between_Two_Seas_and_the_Cosmic_Ocean|cosmic waters]], with all three being folklore of ancient people.<ref>Witzel, E.J. Michael. The Origins of the World's Mythologies (p. 137). Oxford University Press. | ||
''Footnote 289 (p. 470): Ṛgveda 1.19.7 etc.; Maitrāyaṇī Saṃhitā 1.10.13; Kaṭha Saṃhitā 36.7 (see above, § 2, n. 167; § 3, n. 283. Note that both the stemming part and the fixing of the Earth occur much later in mythological time than that of Heaven and Earth. Indra is a descendant of the second generation of deities. If we count the Asuras or Titans as the third generation, they are in fact the cousins of the “fourth” generation, to which Indra belongs. In Japan, the feature of preparing the land for habitation occurs again later on (cf. Aston 1972: 59). Probably in both traditions, myths were restructured restructured and attributed to the most important gods.''</ref> | ''Footnote 289 (p. 470): Ṛgveda 1.19.7 etc.; Maitrāyaṇī Saṃhitā 1.10.13; Kaṭha Saṃhitā 36.7 (see above, § 2, n. 167; § 3, n. 283. Note that both the stemming part and the fixing of the Earth occur much later in mythological time than that of Heaven and Earth. Indra is a descendant of the second generation of deities. If we count the Asuras or Titans as the third generation, they are in fact the cousins of the “fourth” generation, to which Indra belongs. In Japan, the feature of preparing the land for habitation occurs again later on (cf. Aston 1972: 59). Probably in both traditions, myths were restructured restructured and attributed to the most important gods.''</ref> | ||
| Line 248: | Line 248: | ||
Thought the word 'lest' has fallen out of fashion in modern English,<ref>[https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/radio/specials/1535_questionanswer/page68.shtml BBC World Learning Service]. Q&A.</ref> it's meaning is: ''in order to prevent any possibility that something will happen'',<ref>Cambridge Dictionary: [https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/lest Lest]</ref> i.e. to stop it from happening. It also be translated as 'otherwise' in these contexts. You can see used elsewhere where you can see [https://corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?t=1&q=lest here], for example: | Thought the word 'lest' has fallen out of fashion in modern English,<ref>[https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/radio/specials/1535_questionanswer/page68.shtml BBC World Learning Service]. Q&A.</ref> it's meaning is: ''in order to prevent any possibility that something will happen'',<ref>Cambridge Dictionary: [https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/lest Lest]</ref> i.e. to stop it from happening. It also be translated as 'otherwise' in these contexts. You can see used elsewhere where you can see [https://corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?t=1&q=lest here], for example: | ||
{{Quote|{{Quran|7|127}}|And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam's loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes! We testify," lest (أَن) you should say on the Day of Resurrection: "Verily, we have been unaware of this."}} | {{Quote|{{Quran|7|127}}|And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam's loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): "Am I not your Lord?" They said: "Yes! We testify," lest (أَن) you should say on the Day of Resurrection: "Verily, we have been unaware of this."}} | ||
No-one would ever claim mountains actually prevent earthquakes altogether, considering they do not and in fact given the correlation between them and mountain ranges ([[The Quran and Mountains#Mountains prevent the Earth from moving / convulsing / inclining|see above]]), nor any of the nice alternative processes are described as being stopped altogether. The apologists have essentially used a subtle substitution of 'lest' meaning to ''prevent or stop'', to ''lower/reduce'', yet the Qur'an does not say 'reduce/lower shaking' etc.,<ref>E.g. see alternative Arabic words for reducing that could have been used if that is what it meant here: [https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english-arabic/reduce Cambridge English to Arabic dictionary] and here: [https://www.arabicstudentsdictionary.com/word?word_id=b4b95ee3-4477-4df5-b43a-7dba8a4a5c7f&root_id=d734198e-e468-41a4-b6b7-3f7904ced653&action=wordLink Arabic Student's Dictionary]. This does not even include potential metaphors that could have been used to express lowering.</ref> nor does the Qur'an say mountains prevent the Earth shaking/swaying ''a lot'' - so we would expect to see no shaking/swaying from whichever alleged natural process this is referring to rather than simply a minor reduction - making the entire argument invalid. | No-one would ever claim mountains actually prevent earthquakes altogether, considering they do not and in fact given the correlation between them and mountain ranges ([[The Quran and Mountains#Mountains prevent the Earth from moving / convulsing / inclining|see above]]), nor any of the nice alternative processes are described as being stopped altogether. The apologists have essentially used a subtle substitution of 'lest' meaning to ''prevent or stop'', to ''lower/reduce/diminish the effect of'', yet the Qur'an does not say 'reduce/lower shaking' etc.,<ref>E.g. see alternative Arabic words for reducing that could have been used if that is what it meant here: [https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english-arabic/reduce Cambridge English to Arabic dictionary] and here: [https://www.arabicstudentsdictionary.com/word?word_id=b4b95ee3-4477-4df5-b43a-7dba8a4a5c7f&root_id=d734198e-e468-41a4-b6b7-3f7904ced653&action=wordLink Arabic Student's Dictionary]. This does not even include potential metaphors that could have been used to express lowering.</ref> nor does the Qur'an say mountains prevent the Earth shaking/swaying ''a lot/heavily etc'' - so we would expect to see no shaking/swaying from whichever alleged natural process this is referring to rather than simply a minor reduction - making the entire argument invalid. | ||
And once again, critics note that the language used here perfectly matches a pre-modern worldview of mountains being tent pegs holding down a flat Earth that outright stops it from swaying (given the lack of understanding of physics at the time of revelation), either in space or the cosmic ocean. | And once again, critics note that the language used here perfectly matches a pre-modern worldview of mountains being tent pegs holding down a flat Earth that outright stops it from swaying (given the lack of understanding of physics at the time of revelation), either in space or the cosmic ocean. | ||