Talk:Polygamy in Islamic Law
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The page has the word 'Polygamy' in the title, but has several 'polgynys' in its body. 'polygyny' is the more accurate, correct term for what Islam permits, but few people use the term, and I doubt many who are looking for information on this issue will search for it. Do we stick to 'polygamy'? Or could we include a note in the lead explaining the difference between 'polygamy' and 'polygyny' and thenceforth use the latter? Flynnjed (talk) 10:12, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
- I think the article should be titled what people are familiar with. But clarifying the terminology early in the article and then using it correctly would make sense.
- Question re: my edit - you say that men can marry 'two, four, hundred or even a thousand wives', shouldn't it be clarified in a parenthetical such as the one I added that while this may be the case, Islamic law restricts men to four wives, but that they can also take an unlimited number of concubines? It would be misleading if it the paragraph suggested men can take more than four wives 'in islamic law' (as this page is titled). IbnPinker (talk) 17:45, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
- >"I think the article should be titled what people are familiar with. But clarifying the terminology early in the article and then using it correctly would make sense."
- I'll add a clarification on terminology in the lead, and use 'polygyny' henceforth. I'm working on this article off-line, so it won't appear immediately - there's a lot that I feel should be added and it's taking me a few days - the editing system doesn't seem set-up for working across several sessions - there's no capacity to 'save, but don't publish' in the editing space (or at least as far as I can tell...).
- >"you say that men can marry 'two, four, hundred or even a thousand wives', shouldn't it be clarified in a parenthetical such as the one I added that while this may be the case, Islamic law restricts men to four wives..."
- Absolutely. And well-spotted. I'll add a clarification into my off-line edit, which should be ready in a few days time. I must confess that I've not got any material on how the Sultans etc justified their huge harems - it'll interesting finding out.
- I'm wondering whether polygyny may not require some more pages, as what I'm writing is getting quite lengthy. But I think all of it is really important as, I believe, the deep nature of polygyny explains the nature of Islam: as far as I can see, Islam is essentially 'polygyny and its consequences codified and sacralised'. But I'm not too sure how the kind of sociological analysis of polygyny I'm engaged in fits within the categories established by the portals... Anyway, shall we suck it and see? When I save the edit of my essay you may have some ideas on whether it should remain all on the one page, or be separated out, or maybe it falls outside the purview of WikiIslam.
- To what extent should 'polygamy in islamic law' and 'islamic sexual slavery' be considered as separate subjects? I suppose it depends on whether one defines polygamy/polygyny as 'having several wives' or 'having several sexual partners' - but I think that, in Islam, there is only marginal distinction between 'wife' and 'sex-slave/concubine' - and that distinction is principally how the two are justified doctrinally, rather than much that is essential in their nature. The social repercussions of polygyny are largely the same whether the polygyny consists of wives or slaves. I'm inclined to include a section on 'sexual slavery' in this page. Any thoughts? Flynnjed (talk) 05:58, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
- I agree with how you conceive of female slavery and marriage as effectively equivalent insofar as the woman's sexual autonomy is concerned. The exactly correct way to group these topics is not immediately obvious. For the time being, the topic of sex is mostly covered under this page on Rape in Islamic Law.
- >"Would what you want to contribute fit neatly either of these pages? If not, what remains to be created, in your view?"
- I'm starting to have doubts about my edit for the polygamy page as it's getting really long (8,000 words at the mo) - it might be possible to disperse things to other relevant pages (for example the section on how Islamic polygyny gives rise to bride-price/mahr and that could be on the 'mahr' page) but it also feels a shame not to also keep all the consequences of polygyny together in a single section - since they are interconnected and exist in a causal web and it's important that readers understand how far-reaching are the consequences of the monogamy/polygyamy dichotomy on society and civilisation. I'll try to get the word-count down and publish the thing as a single page. Then I'm open to it being edited, cut, the page being divided up, new pages being created etc Flynnjed (talk) 05:12, 25 March 2021 (UTC)