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Geocentrism and the Quran: Difference between revisions
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Rejected the last text change (by CPO675) and restored revision 137297 by Lightyears: Will add back some useful changes but I've had ex-Muslim feedback that Muslims won't be impressed with the sun heat point as the end times is all crazy magical stuff. But the inappropriateness due to size mismatch is distinct from that. The two tafsirs added are saying the moon appears after the sun. They don't tell us whether it literally follows its path.
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(→Quran 36:37-40 - The sun's daily cycle and resting place: Have added some more evidence supporting geocentric argument, inc. classical commentaries.) Tags: Reverted Visual edit |
Lightyears (talk | contribs) (Rejected the last text change (by CPO675) and restored revision 137297 by Lightyears: Will add back some useful changes but I've had ex-Muslim feedback that Muslims won't be impressed with the sun heat point as the end times is all crazy magical stuff. But the inappropriateness due to size mismatch is distinct from that. The two tafsirs added are saying the moon appears after the sun. They don't tell us whether it literally follows its path.) Tag: Manual revert |
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====Historical influences on Islamic cosmology==== | ====Historical influences on Islamic cosmology==== | ||
The geocentrism and general cosmography of the Qur'an shows little or no influence from Ptolemaic concepts of heavenly spheres, each containing a celestial body, according to which paradigm the Qur'an and the word ''falak'' later came to be interpreted<ref name="LanesLexiconFalak" /><ref name="vanBladelCords">{{citation|last1=van Bladel |first1=Kevin |date=2007 |title=Heavenly cords and prophetic authority in the Qur’an and its Late Antique context |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/40379198 |journal=Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies |volume=70 |issue=2 |pages=223-246 |doi= |access-date=25 April 2021}}</ref> In a paper on Qur'anic cosmography, Damien Janos notes that the "Qurʾānic cosmology stems from a different religious background and it does not contain any conspicuous signs of synthesis or assimilation with the cosmological trends indebted to Ptolemaic astronomy"<ref>{{citation |last1=Janos |first1=Damien |date=2012 |title=Qurʾānic cosmography in its historical perspective: some notes on the formation of a religious wordview |journal=Religion |volume=42 |issue=2 |pages=215-231}} See p. 224</ref> and observes that in various respects the two paradigms are incompatible, particularly as the celestial bodies move in the lowest part of the seven heavens in the Qur'anic model.<ref>Ibid. p. 221</ref> Rather, the Qur'an is more reflective of its Biblical and Mesopotamian predecessors (see also [[Cosmology of the Quran]]). In the same paper Janos does, however, theorise that the Qur'anic ''falak'' may contain Greek influence given how often it was interpreted in terms of circularity or sphericity by Muslim scholars. He also considers as a possible hypothesis that both the ''falak'' and seven heavens "can be construed as having not a fully spherical shape, but rather a hemispherical or domed-shape", and the sun would transit back to its origin in the east "via an underground passage", which "finds some support in traditional Arabic reports [...] and seems to have Mesopotamian | The geocentrism and general cosmography of the Qur'an shows little or no influence from Ptolemaic concepts of heavenly spheres, each containing a celestial body, according to which paradigm the Qur'an and the word ''falak'' later came to be interpreted<ref name="LanesLexiconFalak" /><ref name="vanBladelCords">{{citation|last1=van Bladel |first1=Kevin |date=2007 |title=Heavenly cords and prophetic authority in the Qur’an and its Late Antique context |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/40379198 |journal=Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies |volume=70 |issue=2 |pages=223-246 |doi= |access-date=25 April 2021}}</ref> In a paper on Qur'anic cosmography, Damien Janos notes that the "Qurʾānic cosmology stems from a different religious background and it does not contain any conspicuous signs of synthesis or assimilation with the cosmological trends indebted to Ptolemaic astronomy"<ref>{{citation |last1=Janos |first1=Damien |date=2012 |title=Qurʾānic cosmography in its historical perspective: some notes on the formation of a religious wordview |journal=Religion |volume=42 |issue=2 |pages=215-231}} See p. 224</ref> and observes that in various respects the two paradigms are incompatible, particularly as the celestial bodies move in the lowest part of the seven heavens in the Qur'anic model.<ref>Ibid. p. 221</ref> Rather, the Qur'an is more reflective of its Biblical and Mesopotamian predecessors (see also [[Cosmology of the Quran]]). In the same paper Janos does, however, theorise that the Qur'anic ''falak'' may contain Greek influence given how often it was interpreted in terms of circularity or sphericity by Muslim scholars. He also considers as a possible hypothesis that both the ''falak'' and seven heavens "can be construed as having not a fully spherical shape, but rather a hemispherical or domed-shape", and the sun would transit back to its origin in the east "via an underground passage", which "finds some support in traditional Arabic reports [...] and seems to have Mesopotamian antecendents".<ref>Ibid. p. 228</ref> | ||
==Geocentrism in the Qur'an== | ==Geocentrism in the Qur'an== | ||
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Immediately after describing the change from day to night the passage states that the sun runs on to a designated "resting place" (ِmustaqarrin مُسْتَقَرٍّ See footnotes regarding the Arabic word here, which differs from similar verses).<ref name="mustaqarrin">A few translations use instead, "appointed term", though in nearly all other verses where we find mustaqarrin (qaf-ra-ra قرر [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000029.pdf Lane's Lexicon Volume 1 page 2501]) as a participle they translate it as a place of settlement or an abode or resting place. There are other verses (35:13, 31:29, 39:5, 13:2) that mention the sun and moon running (with the same verb as is translated "run" in 36:38) for a term appointed, but these use the words لِأَجَلٍ مُّسَمًّى which do indeed mean a term appointed - However, note that mustaqarrin مُسْتَقَرٍّ in 36:38 is a different word.</ref> There is also a sahih hadith that use the same Arabic word as in {{Quran|36|38}} to identify "a resting place" as part of the sun's daily cycle.<ref>See {{Muslim|1|297}} (also {{Bukhari|6|60|326}} and {{Bukhari|6|60|327}} where Q. 36:38 is explained such that the resting place is under the throne)</ref> An alternative view is that this refers to the sun's final resting on the last day rather than some temporal location. Another narration of the same hadith possibly supports this view.<ref>See {{Bukhari|4|54|421}} and {{Bukhari|9|93|520}} where Q. 36:38 is instead mentioned at the end, possibly indicating that the مُسْتَقَرٍّ (resting place) in 36:38 refers to the end of the world when the sun is asked to rise from its setting place (مِنْ مَغْرِبِهَا) instead of under the throne each night.</ref> Whichever meaning was originally intended, the sun's movement is nevertheless mentioned right after describing day and night, just as the next verse mentions the different mansions appointed for the moon each night. The whole passage is about day and night and the sun and moon's movement in that context. | Immediately after describing the change from day to night the passage states that the sun runs on to a designated "resting place" (ِmustaqarrin مُسْتَقَرٍّ See footnotes regarding the Arabic word here, which differs from similar verses).<ref name="mustaqarrin">A few translations use instead, "appointed term", though in nearly all other verses where we find mustaqarrin (qaf-ra-ra قرر [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000029.pdf Lane's Lexicon Volume 1 page 2501]) as a participle they translate it as a place of settlement or an abode or resting place. There are other verses (35:13, 31:29, 39:5, 13:2) that mention the sun and moon running (with the same verb as is translated "run" in 36:38) for a term appointed, but these use the words لِأَجَلٍ مُّسَمًّى which do indeed mean a term appointed - However, note that mustaqarrin مُسْتَقَرٍّ in 36:38 is a different word.</ref> There is also a sahih hadith that use the same Arabic word as in {{Quran|36|38}} to identify "a resting place" as part of the sun's daily cycle.<ref>See {{Muslim|1|297}} (also {{Bukhari|6|60|326}} and {{Bukhari|6|60|327}} where Q. 36:38 is explained such that the resting place is under the throne)</ref> An alternative view is that this refers to the sun's final resting on the last day rather than some temporal location. Another narration of the same hadith possibly supports this view.<ref>See {{Bukhari|4|54|421}} and {{Bukhari|9|93|520}} where Q. 36:38 is instead mentioned at the end, possibly indicating that the مُسْتَقَرٍّ (resting place) in 36:38 refers to the end of the world when the sun is asked to rise from its setting place (مِنْ مَغْرِبِهَا) instead of under the throne each night.</ref> Whichever meaning was originally intended, the sun's movement is nevertheless mentioned right after describing day and night, just as the next verse mentions the different mansions appointed for the moon each night. The whole passage is about day and night and the sun and moon's movement in that context. | ||
The phrase "It is not for the sun to overtake the moon" in {{Quran|36|40}} does not, critics point out, comfortably fit a heliocentric perspective, | The phrase "It is not for the sun to overtake the moon" in {{Quran|36|40}} does not, critics point out, comfortably fit a heliocentric perspective, yet is quite natural from a 7<sup>th</sup> century perspective where the sun and moon were believed to orbit the same world, and indeed, would one day be joined together (discussed in another section below). The word translated 'for' in the phrase 'It is not for the sun...' in {{Quran|36|40}} is ''yanbaghee (''يَنۢبَغِى'')'', which means "fitting", "suitable", "proper", "behoves", "right and allowable", "good, "facilitated", "easy", "practicable", or "manageable"<ref>ba-ghayn-ya [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000269.pdf Lane's Lexicon Book 1 page 233]</ref> and the word translated 'overtake' is ''tudrika'' (تُدْرِكَ), which means "catches up and comes upon".<ref>dal-ra-kaf [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000039.pdf Lane's Lexicon Book 1 page 873]</ref> | ||
====The sun's movement is almost always mentioned in the context of day and night==== | ====The sun's movement is almost always mentioned in the context of day and night==== | ||
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{{Quote|{{Quran-range|75|8|9}}|And the moon darkens And the sun and the moon are joined,}} | {{Quote|{{Quran-range|75|8|9}}|And the moon darkens And the sun and the moon are joined,}} | ||
The word translated "are joined" is ''jumi'a'', a verb which means to collect together, gather together, bring together.<ref>Jama'a [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume2/00000091.pdf Lane's Lexicon Book 1 page 455]</ref> Critics note that this would require the moon to travel | The word translated "are joined" is ''jumi'a'', a verb which means to collect together, gather together, bring together.<ref>Jama'a [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume2/00000091.pdf Lane's Lexicon Book 1 page 455]</ref> Critics note that this would require the moon to travel 93 million miles away from Earth and into the sun, which is over 400 times wider. To describe them as brought together (jumi'a) in such a scenario would hardly be apt, critics argue, and a very odd apocalyptic event. Rather, the description sits comfortably in the ancient understanding of the cosmos, whereby the sun and moon were assumed to be two roughly equivalent celestial bodies in the sky above the Earth. | ||
It is worth noting that the "darkening" of the moon in verse 8 is an Arabic word which in hadiths refers to a lunar or solar eclipse (in this case lunar). However, for a lunar eclipse to occur (when the earth's shadow is cast upon the moon) the sun and moon are on opposite sides of the earth and thus are not in any sense "brought together". Nor does brought together in verse 9 work as a reference to a solar eclipse (when the sun occasionally casts a shadow of the moon on the earth). The moon is invisible during the portion of a month when it can eclipse the sun since it must be on the daylit side of the earth, and hence the moon does not "darken" or itself become eclipsed (verse 8) as it passes between observers and the sun but rather its silhouette becomes visible. | It is worth noting that the "darkening" of the moon in verse 8 is an Arabic word which in hadiths refers to a lunar or solar eclipse (in this case lunar). However, for a lunar eclipse to occur (when the earth's shadow is cast upon the moon) the sun and moon are on opposite sides of the earth and thus are not in any sense "brought together". Nor does brought together in verse 9 work as a reference to a solar eclipse (when the sun occasionally casts a shadow of the moon on the earth). The moon is invisible during the portion of a month when it can eclipse the sun since it must be on the daylit side of the earth, and hence the moon does not "darken" or itself become eclipsed (verse 8) as it passes between observers and the sun but rather its silhouette becomes visible. | ||
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These Hadiths are all deemed '[[sahih]]' (authentic) according to Islamic scholars. According to historians, however, even if these hadiths are not historically reliable, they nonetheless indicate what very early Muslim authorities believed about the sun and are thus useful in interpreting the intended meaning of the Qur'an. | These Hadiths are all deemed '[[sahih]]' (authentic) according to Islamic scholars. According to historians, however, even if these hadiths are not historically reliable, they nonetheless indicate what very early Muslim authorities believed about the sun and are thus useful in interpreting the intended meaning of the Qur'an. | ||
===Ancient and modern Muslim astronomers=== | ===Ancient and modern Muslim astronomers=== | ||