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== "12 months miracle" in the Qur'an move ==
Hi Can you move [["12 months miracle" in the Qur'an]] to [[12 months miracle in the Qur'an]] without quotes?  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 15:30, 28 October 2016 (EDT)
:: Of course, but I don't understand why? I wanted to put it in quotes, to indicate it is not a miracle. I read that quotes shouldn't be in the name, because in some forums the links don't work, and that's why I named it "12 months miracle in the Quran" and put the quotish name into page_title. Also I have a similar article on 365 days miracle. [[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 04:24, 29 October 2016 (EDT)
:: Or maybe I should call it 12 months non-miracle ? :D
:::It was looking odd- no other reasons. Besides, have you got any contacts in exmna?  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:36, 1 November 2016 (EDT)
:::: I have problems with naming, yesterday I wanted to make an article about "The word salawat (prayer) being mentioned 5 times in the Quran non-miracle" and I couldn't find a simple nice name for it, also to make it clear that I am not talking about prayer itself, but about a word-count (non-)miracle.
::::No I don't have any contacts. I am czech since-birth-atheist. My primary goal was to make some translations to my language. [[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 13:49, 1 November 2016 (EDT)
:::::We already have a [[Word Count Miracles in the Qur'an]] article. Maybe you can expand it or create a sub article like [[Word Count Miracles in the Qur'an: "Prayer" Mentioned Five Times]], [[Word Count Miracles in the Qur'an/"Prayer" Mentioned Five Times]] or just [[Word Count Miracles in the Qur'an: "Prayer"]]. I prefer colons.  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 14:48, 4 November 2016 (EDT)
Can you edit the main page? So that we can put newly created and expanded articles in the box on the right side.  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 16:00, 5 November 2016 (EDT)
:: I can't edit the main page of wikiislam to add links to the area on the right. But when I click on "more new articles", (it seems that) I can edit that page. I don't know if they are connected. My article on 365 days miracle is there without me adding it there. [[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 09:01, 6 November 2016 (EST)
:::Good. Anything that works in our favour is welcome.  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 09:01, 8 November 2016 (EST)
:::[[Man and woman word count]] ----> [[Man and woman word count in the Qur'an]]?  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 09:03, 8 November 2016 (EST)
::::ok [[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 09:17, 8 November 2016 (EST)
:::::What are your next plans?  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 12:00, 10 November 2016 (EST)
::::::I am kinda content and not so motivated anymore. But the next would be paradise and hell word count, and then some others and also I want to do a summary table of all the miracles and their counting methods. The rows would be name of the miracles and columns like "bi- prefix counted", "suffixes counted", "word meaning ignored". And inside will be "yes" "no". That would clearly show the inconsistency of the methods. I also have an idea of making "anti-miracles" like finding 666 occurrences of something? or some miracle with the words like "terror" or "kill" in the quran.. i dunno. But that would take a lot of work. [[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 18:10, 10 November 2016 (EST)
:::::::Anti-miracles is a good idea. I saw something like a miraculous word count in "Allah is a pig". I think there is rarely any apologist challenging our claims nowadays (at least in English sites). Yet, we both have to take this site where it needs to go and where it deserves to go, for now. Good luck!  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 00:00, 12 November 2016 (EST)
::::::I think the article is sufficient. How could anybody take the word counts seriously after reading all of that? I don't want to spend the rest of the year making tables of occurrences, like 50 "people" and "messengers". I think just the claim that this is a miracle is embarrassing enough. Also I wanted to add something about word count miracles in other scriptures (or books). There is some "bible code" but its about letters, something with word counts would be better. Also I don't want to do the table of miracles and their counting methods, because it would be too big in both columns and rows. And the anti-miracles are not necessary for disproving the "miracles", so they are not important. [[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 14:52, 26 November 2016 (EST)
::::::::But hey! Your articles are great. Maybe you deserve a break now :P (though making more detailed lists of word counts are good to defeat the apologists). Anyway, I hope you can help with my queries on Arabic words, if I have any in future. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 15:47, 26 November 2016 (EST)
:::::::::I don't know, I wanted to take a break before and I didn't :D I'll see. But like, I am not going to lie on couch, I have some other stuff to do... I'd recommend watching the alphabet songs on youtube (I started like that a year ago) and then using the virtual keyboard (on screen) to write those letters. This opens the door for google translate and learning some details if needed. You don't need to know the quranic grammar, when you have corpus.quran.com. But you can write me if you need something, I also contacted the masked arab, when I couldn't resolve some issue.  [[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 18:31, 26 November 2016 (EST)
== Addition to [[Template:QuranHadithScholarsIndex‎]] ==
Can you approve my addition of one link to this template?? [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 13:11, 13 November 2016 (EST)
== Humor tag ==
How about putting a humor tag on [[Paradise and hell word count in the Qur'an]]. Since the 72 virgins and the "hell" word count of 72 is almost a joke. Then the second funny thing is the word translated as "madness".  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 10:12, 15 November 2016 (EST)
::I don't know. Most of the article is serious, there are just two almost-jokes. I don't want people to take the article as a one big joke. I am planning to put the 72 hells miracle into the anti-miracle page, which should have the Humor tag. [[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 11:47, 15 November 2016 (EST)
:::Great ideas. One article I am planning is "list of genocides cultural genocides and ethnic cleansing under Islam". I have to gather all the sources. Can you approve it when completed?  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 13:08, 15 November 2016 (EST)
::::That would be interesting. I don't know much about the history of muslims. Something tells me that this will be a long list. I think I can.  --[[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 16:43, 15 November 2016 (EST)
==Uthmani script for word count==
I guess all the word count articles are counting the usual Arabic script and only "prayer" is in Uthmani script. If we start checking Uthmani and do the count for lots of words like heaven, hell, life, death, angels, day, year etc. will those counts be non-miraculous? I guess they will.  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 12:25, 22 November 2016 (EST)
:: I am using Uthmani all the time. Only in the case of "prayers" the salawat appeared too much in it. [[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 12:49, 22 November 2016 (EST)
:::If that is the case, do you know when (and why) the change to simple script occurred? This is important because it means the Quran has got a major change and we will have to put this in several articles.
:::I also think about vice versa. The miracles in Uthmani are probably not present in simple Arabic. If any of the apologists are using simple arabic, they are in a trap :P  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 13:11, 22 November 2016 (EST)
::::I am actually not sure about this. I will look deeper into that. [[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 13:38, 22 November 2016 (EST)
:::::Cool.  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 14:12, 22 November 2016 (EST)
::::::I contacted The Masked Arab :) The word in the Uthmani script is actually the same word as in the Simple script, it is just written differently. I changed the "prayer" word count text accordingly. He said that a rumor is that the Uthmani word ٱلصَّلَوٰةِ probably has the (not pronounced) letter و (w) because it is not an original Arabic word. The Simple script obviously just makes the pronunciation simple, because it writes alif where alif is pronounced, while uthmani script wrote waw, which was pronounced as alif. I have doubted my point about this Uthmani/Simple script for a long time. It really didn't make sense that there are two versions pronounced differently. [[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 16:08, 23 November 2016 (EST)
:::::::I think this means Uthmani contains "salawat" in writing many times but it is pronounced as salat. Is it?  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 10:53, 24 November 2016 (EST)
::::::::Yes. It has the letter و which is usually pronounced as "w". And above the و is a "dagger alif" like this: وٰ. Dagger alif means a long vowel "aa" after the letter. For example the word Allah is made of the letters ALLH. And the second A after the second L is created by a dagger alif above the second L, so it is pronounced as ALLAH.
:::::::: It makes no difference in the word count for prayer. Even if it was read as salawat, there would be analogical "miracle" in the uthamni script with two different words salawat, because the singular ends on a different kind of "t" than plural. There is no problem with the non-pronounced w with regards to this word count. [[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 16:49, 24 November 2016 (EST)
==Translation Links==
there are many interesting links for translation [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Sandbox/Temporary_Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars_page here]. Then we will have lots of pages expanding. Can you do some of them after you're free?  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 06:21, 8 December 2016 (EST)
::All the links in the "Scholars" section are broken. They get redirected to the main page of the category (hadiths or sira..). Maybe the hnum in the url is "hadith number" and might be re-searched?
::Also I noticed, that in the "Hadith" section, when you click on the number of the hadith, these links are also broken and get redirected to some kind of main page. The same happens with the Quran, for example in the "Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Forced Conversion", when you click on "9:5" it gets 404 error. The templates which convert the hadith/verse number to url are wrong. [[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 06:45, 16 December 2016 (EST)
:::"All the links in the "Scholars" section are broken." Yes i think that there is a need to search from the main page. There must be scholarly quotes topic-wise in each link at the main page. From there I found a biography page of Muhammad [http://sirah.al-islam.com/Loader.aspx?pageid=203&BookID=166&TOCID=1]. My computer has a bad translation :(
:::The templates are very complicated. Temporarily I am citing links to sunnah.com for hadith [archived pages if possible] and islamawakend.com for quran.  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:39, 16 December 2016 (EST)
::::Scholar Ibn Kathir described a giant whale that supports the earth in great detail [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Cosmology#Ibn_Kathir here] (and there are similar descriptions in the rest of the page). The translators obviously omitted this from all English versions of Tafsir ibn Kathir. So, this stuff looks like the tip of the iceberg. As we get more and more translations, more excellent quotes will emerge. :P  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 07:10, 17 December 2016 (EST)
:::::I know, the masked arab made a video about it. I still have a small vocabulary and it's hard for me to translate a big text. I am currently translating (for myself) arabic rap. That's fun. شيبوبه and عيال مكة are from Mekka and more talented than Mo. The rap videos seem to be the only (or the easiest) way to see a written Arabic text being pronounced. (besides quran recitations, but they sound terrible) --[[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 10:13, 17 December 2016 (EST)
== [[Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Muhammad]] ==
For the spitting hadiths, we already have a hygiene QHS [[Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Health and Hygiene
]]. How about moving the spitting quotes there? Since the main Muhammad article is supposed to keep all sections a bit short.  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 12:25, 19 December 2016 (EST)
:: But it is his personal characteristic. It's not spitting in Islam. He is not commanding spitting to Muslims. And megalomania has also a lot of hadiths. I'd rather delete my little commenetaries to them to make it smaller, or create a Muhammad spitting sub-category and add some more spitting hadiths there. Or just leave it as it is. I think that if someone wants to read about his characteristics, he has to be informed that Mo was spitting all over the place. --[[User:Prekladator|Prekladator]] ([[User talk:Prekladator|talk]]) 09:59, 20 December 2016 (EST)
== [[Diacritical Marks of the Qur'an]] ==
This article has a section that explains letters. But there is no Arabic text and that makes it difficult to understand..... Can you do something about it?  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 12:46, 31 December 2016 (EST)
== Whale ==
== Whale ==


I recollected that I had made long ago some notes on the whale [[Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Cosmology|here]]. One or two of the sources are the same as the main whale article. Good for yuo to expand instead of translating!  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 15:22, 14 January 2017 (EST)
I recollected that I had made long ago some notes on the whale [[Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Cosmology|here]]. One or two of the sources are the same as the main whale article. Good for yuo to expand instead of translating!  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 15:22, 14 January 2017 (EST)
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