The Islamic Whale: Difference between revisions

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The Islamic Whale (view source)

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(I have added another apologist argument response in the ‘Mordern Apologetics’ section.)
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===Ibn Abbas Receiving the Story from the Jews===
===Ibn Abbas Receiving the Story from the Jews===


Some modern believers and apologists as referenced above attribute this story to Jewish sources, basing this idea on the fact that ibn Abbas often took and retold Jewish stories. This practice though is actually attested to in sahih hadith:
Some modern Islamic scholars attribute this story to Jewish sources, basing this idea on the fact that ibn Abbas often took and retold Jewish stories. Interestingly, there exist sahih hadiths which appear to permit exactly this sort of re-narration:
{{Quote|{{Bukhari|4|55|667}}|Narrated `Abdullah bin `Amr:
{{Quote|{{Bukhari|4|55|667}}|Narrated `Abdullah bin `Amr:


The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "'''Convey (my teachings)''' to the people even if it were a single sentence, and '''tell others the stories of Bani Israel (which have been taught to you)''', for it is not sinful to do so. And whoever tells a lie on me intentionally, will surely take his place in the (Hell) Fire."}}
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "'''Convey (my teachings)''' to the people even if it were a single sentence, and '''tell others the stories of Bani Israel (which have been taught to you)''', for it is not sinful to do so. And whoever tells a lie on me intentionally, will surely take his place in the (Hell) Fire."}}


This hadith seem to allow taking stories from the Jews. In the phrase "of Bani Israel" (عَنْ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ), the word عن could mean both "from" and "about". And the beginning of the hadith says literally "convey from me" (بلغوا عني), so it looks more likely that it should be stories about Jews, but from Islamic sources.
This hadith appears to allow taking stories from Jewish sources. In the phrase "of Bani Israel" (عَنْ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ), the word عن can mean both "from" and "about". Some Islamic scholars contest that this, coupled with the fact that the beginning of the hadith reads, literally translated, "convey from me" (بلغوا عني), it is more likely that Muhammad's message is to narration stories ''about'' Jews ''from'' Islamic sources.


Fath ul-Bari says in his commentary:
Fath ul-Bari says in his commentary:
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So from the traditional sources it would not appear that there is anything particularly wrong with taking Jewish stories and retelling them for Muslims. In fact, the majority of the material in the Qur'an deals with either Jewish or Christian stories when a narrative is present.
Still, at the same time, some competing Islamic scholars argue that there is not anything wrong with taking Jewish stories from and retelling them for Muslims with an Islamic spin - with modern historians note, In fact, that where a Jewish or Christian narrative on any given topic, the Quran usually reiterates this with some changes made suitable to Islamic theology.


The hadith is often combined by apologists with another hadith from Sahih Al-Bukhari, from the chapter '''“Do not ask the people of the Scripture about anything.”''' (The name of the chapter says it clearly, but apologists still think that the hadiths in this chapter support telling false stories from Jews):
Those scholars arguing against the validity of the biblical references often couple the foregoing hadith with another hadith from Sahih Al-Bukhari, from the chapter entitled “Do not ask the people of the Scripture about anything”:
{{Quote|{{Bukhari|9|92|460}}, book 96, chapter '''"Do not ask the people of the Scripture about anything"'''|
{{Quote|{{Bukhari|9|92|460}}, book 96, chapter "Do not ask the people of the Scripture about anything"|
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Narrated Abu Huraira:


The people of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and then explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said (to the Muslims). "Do not believe the people of the Book, nor disbelieve them, but say, 'We believe in Allah and whatever is revealed to us, and whatever is revealed to you.' "
The people of the Book used to read the Torah in Hebrew and then explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said (to the Muslims). "Do not believe the people of the Book, nor disbelieve them, but say, 'We believe in Allah and whatever is revealed to us, and whatever is revealed to you.' "
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This hadith doesn't say that Muslims should spread the Jewish stories. The most likely interpretation is that Muslims should ignore the Jews, because some of the Jewish stories are right, some are wrong, but the only truth is from Muhammad.
Islamic scholars are again divided on the interpretation of this hadith. Some argue that Muslims should ignore the Jews, because some of the Jewish stories are right, while others are wrong.. Other scholars emphasize the final part of the hadith with says Muslims ought to believe in whatever was revealed to the Jews, and thereby arrive at the conclusion that narrating from them is acceptable.


Telling lies from Jews is forbidden, according to Imam Shafii:
Imam Shafi'i, for instance, explicitly prohibits retelling the "lies" of the Jewish traditions:
{{Quote|Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani, Fathul Bari, Kitab: Ahaadeeth Al 'Anbiyaa', Bab: Ma Thakr 'an Bani Israel <ref>https://library.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?bk_no=52&ID=2078&idfrom=6279&idto=6300&bookid=52&startno=8</ref>|
{{Quote|Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani, Fathul Bari, Kitab: Ahaadeeth Al 'Anbiyaa', Bab: Ma Thakr 'an Bani Israel <ref>https://library.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?bk_no=52&ID=2078&idfrom=6279&idto=6300&bookid=52&startno=8</ref>|
  من المعلوم أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم لا يجيز التحدث بالكذب ، فالمعنى حدثوا عن بني إسرائيل بما لا تعلمون كذبه ، وأما ما تجوزونه فلا حرج عليكم في التحدث به عنهم [ ص: 576 ] وهو نظير قوله : إذا حدثكم أهل الكتاب فلا تصدقوهم ولا تكذبوهم ولم يرد الإذن ولا المنع من التحدث بما يقطع بصدقه  
  من المعلوم أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم لا يجيز التحدث بالكذب ، فالمعنى حدثوا عن بني إسرائيل بما لا تعلمون كذبه ، وأما ما تجوزونه فلا حرج عليكم في التحدث به عنهم [ ص: 576 ] وهو نظير قوله : إذا حدثكم أهل الكتاب فلا تصدقوهم ولا تكذبوهم ولم يرد الإذن ولا المنع من التحدث بما يقطع بصدقه  
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And finally a quote from Ibn Abbas himself, also from the chapter '''“Do not ask the people of the Scripture about anything.”'''. This seems to cast doubt on the idea that ibn Abbas was even in the habit of taking stories from the Jews:
Another important quote from Ibn Abbas himself is also found in the chapter “Do not ask the people of the Scripture about anything”, however. This narration appears to cast doubt on the idea that ibn Abbas was in the habit of taking stories from the Jews:
{{Quote|{{Bukhari|9|92|461}}, book 96, chapter '''"Do not ask the people of the Scripture about anything"'''|
{{Quote|{{Bukhari|9|92|461}}, book 96, chapter '''"Do not ask the people of the Scripture about anything"'''|
Narrated Ubaidullah:
Narrated Ubaidullah:
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