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== Core articles and translations ==
Sad that some of that editor's work had to be removed. I made this change in the 'welcome creation' page[http://wikiislam.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Welcomecreation]. Hopefully now they'll talk to us first before starting any translation work. Tweak as you like. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 10:27, 13 January 2014 (PST)
:Cool, Will do. Yeah, it's too bad. But I don't understand why new translators go straight to the core articles. It's common sense that small paragraph summaries are useless without the full articles. It's also a shame that some of them feel the need to alter the original articles without keeping us informed. That comment he added about the "90%" completely undermines the entire article.  [[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 15:20, 13 January 2014 (PST)
::Yea those changes/additions aren't good. Thanks for watching out for that.
:: What do you think about task 2 [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Tasks#High_priority] (the one about new Overview articles which are all sourced). The last line of that task is about core articles. Some initial thoughts: This could mean that the current Core articles would have the "Articles/Article summaries" sections re-written so they are all referenced/sourced, and then we can still use the <nowiki>{{</nowiki>main|}} template to link those articles. They can then translate these Core articles and the <nowiki>{{</nowiki>main templates can just be removed from the text. What do you think. I'll think more about this. What we want is an sourced overview that is a stand alone article, and thats what people see when they click those links. The next issue is, what do we do with the article summaries. Article summaries could be moved further down on that page. Or they could be merged and we could only have them linked with the "main" template and they wont lose their visibility. [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=Islam_and_Apostasy&diff=102486&oldid=102445 This] should help prevent more direct translations of these articles. We can leave notes like that for people who edit. We should still think about these overview articles though. They will also be great as first translations. I'll post here if I get any good ideas. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 17:13, 13 January 2014 (PST)
:::The core articles were always meant to be an easy-to-read starting point for each topic, guiding readers to more information (basically hub pages with a lot more information). That was always the point, and they work brilliantly for that. They were not meant as stand-alone articles. So the problem is the summaries on the core articles are very brief and many aren't even summaries; they're introductions explaining what the full articles are about. To make them stand-alone articles, most of it would have to be rewritten and expanded. So they would no longer be short or easy-to-read. They would be long, complicated sections that are basically repeating already existing information and making our real articles a little pointless (since the info on those pages will already be on the core pages). [[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 17:40, 13 January 2014 (PST)
::::'''"What we want is an sourced overview that is a stand alone article, and thats what people see when they click those links."'''
::::When has this ever been what we wanted? Every other article on the site is a stand-alone article, so why would we want the same for the core articles linked on the side? The whole reason we started those core articles was to provide a single page that would branch out to all the other important articles. Why would we want to put normal stand-alone articles on the side-bar? [[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 17:47, 13 January 2014 (PST)
:::::Ok well, you're not seeing it the way I'm seeing it. I would explain further but since I dont see myself working on this any time soon I'll just let it pass. If I work on such a sample sourced page I'll talk about this again. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 18:07, 13 January 2014 (PST)
::::::I don't see any harm in discussing it now. Besides, more core articles are on our tasks page. This means I'll possibly be creating more and it would be nice to know if that would be a waste of my time or not. So, to start, just tell me specifically what benefits do you think we will gain by whatever it is you're suggesting?
::::::Also, answering your original question about task 2, I think we should stick to making it similar to the Wikipedia equivalent (i.e. a long but single page). Splitting topics and spreading it over multiple pages would involve too much work. I doubt any editor would finish a project like that, and even if they did, it would probably turn out less than satisfactory. It would also be repeating a lot of information for no apparent reason. Maybe you're thinking translators would benefit (which is what you seem to be saying). But I don't think that's the case. Translator would probably never finish translating it. Rather than translating a few normal articles, they'll start doing that for a few days then stop; leaving us with a lot of unfinished and useless pages. [[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 18:26, 13 January 2014 (PST)
:::::::It would be too much work for me to try to make my point more clear without showing you an actual example of it. If you dont agree with that task, you can move it to my user page. Its ok with me. I can move it back if I get to it again. You can also save these comments in that task's description (hidden comment). --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 18:49, 13 January 2014 (PST)
== News ==
We could get rid of the news section ([[Main_Page]]) or get the old RSS stuff back in but I dont know if it will be good since we dont control the auto generation. I tried to find the code we had before but I cant find it. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 17:44, 16 January 2014 (PST)
:Al-Q has some issues that he's dealing with at the mo, but will be back soon to regularly update the news. He should also be creating news pages for the few months he missed.[[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 06:01, 17 January 2014 (PST)
::Oh ok, cool. Good to know. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 06:07, 17 January 2014 (PST)
== Translating in italian ==
Hi Sahabah, I've finished to translate an article in italian:  "the timeline of Muhammad".
I've also noted that you have translated "Women are deficient in intelligence and religion".
With some little (very little) errors =) =).
Can I help?
:Hi Hood4. Of course. Your help would be greatly appreciated! Feel free to correct any errors you see. And thank you for the new translation. I will add it now to the front page. [[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 14:42, 26 January 2014 (PST)
== what happened this time ==
thats a strange legend- lightning and resurection . what was wrong in adding it?  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 03:09, 9 February 2014 (PST)
:It's already a stretch having a section on miracles in an errors page. I think that new addition was weak and the page is better without it. [[User:Sahab|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 03:18, 9 February 2014 (PST)
::How about dis- Pharoh doing crucifixion(anachronism)? or the sun or earth being the cause of shadows (i have details on this one because this eror depend on translations but error is there). which of the two do u like?[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 04:28, 9 February 2014 (PST)
:::Both of those sound great. Please make sure that they're not already on there somewhere (it's a long page so it is easy to accidentally add duplicates). [[User:Sahab|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 04:32, 9 February 2014 (PST)
::::I wanto start a logical errors article (diferent from contradictions and sc errors). How to put put sections in it?chapterwise?[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 01:25, 12 February 2014 (PST)
:::::You can work on articles in a sandbox (e.g. [[User:Saggy/Sandbox]], [[User:Saggy/Sandbox 2]], [[User:Saggy/Sandbox 3]]). For chapters and other formatting, you can press the edit button at the top of any page and see it. For the main chapter headings it would be: <nowiki>==chapter heading here==</nowiki> For a sub-heading it would be <nowiki>===sub-heading here===</nowiki> And so on. You should also take a look through the [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Category:Help_Pages help pages]. [[User:Sahab|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 03:58, 12 February 2014 (PST)
::::::Theres a very common error ; rain brings trees of a dead land to life therefore people will be also brought back to life. Is it scintific or logical? Looking for more errors whcih are only logical. U have any? I listed some in my sandbox.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 03:47, 16 February 2014 (PST)
:::::::What verse is that? If I think of any I'll let you know. [[User:Sahab|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 05:39, 16 February 2014 (PST)
::::::::Here 7:57, 35:9,43:11,50:11,30:19 30:50.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 08:33, 16 February 2014 (PST)
:::::::::okey its non-sequitur logical fallacy.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 09:17, 17 February 2014 (PST)
:::::::::: I have good numbers of verses. Shall I still make the article in sandbox or I make it as an article and use undercontruction template?--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:59, 18 February 2014 (PST)
::::::::::: Hi. It's probably best to keep working on it in your sandbox. [[User:Sahab|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 13:59, 18 February 2014 (PST)
::::::::::::On second thoughts, a better idea would probably be to move your article to the main Sandbox URL like: [[WikiIslam:Sandbox/Name of your article here]] (e.g. [[WikiIslam:Sandbox/All about Islam]]. [[User:Sahab|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 15:57, 18 February 2014 (PST)
:::::::::::::What after that?--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 07:48, 20 February 2014 (PST)
:::::::::::::: Obviously it will stay there until it is completed. If it meets our quality standards and we think it is suitable for this site, then it will be moved to the mainspace. If it doesn't meet quality standards and/or is not suitable for this site, then it will stay there until it does or be deleted (depending on whether it shows potential). [[User:Sahab|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 08:27, 20 February 2014 (PST)
whats your opinion on this thing?[http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Sandbox/Logical_Errors_in_the_Qur%27an] Cleanup and lead still left.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 01:25, 21 February 2014 (PST)
:Good work in starting that article but I think it needs many more errors than just 5 or 6, before we can call it "logical errors in the Quran". The [http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/ Skeptics Quran] may be of help. They have categories like Absurdities, Contradictions (these should be checked against our list of contradictions, by the way). --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 05:09, 21 February 2014 (PST)
::Yeah, I would say it's not very substantial ATM. I also think not all of them are very solid logical errors. The first error doesn't conclusively show Allah had to be "reminded by Jesus". To me that's clearly the author trying to make a point (i.e. Allah knows everything), and Allah's questioning is just theatrics. It doesn't necessarily indicate that Allah has bad memory.
::Concerning the SAQ, I'd say it's a decent place to get a few ideas, but even critics have commented on how crappy that site is, taking things out of context etc. I'm not saying I agree with them, but our Science Errors page is in such a mess because an editor simply lifted everything from another site (i.e. AnsweringIslam). The last thing we want is to have history repeat itself and open us up to more criticism. [[User:Sahab|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 06:11, 21 February 2014 (PST)
:::Yes everything from other sites would have to be verified/evaluated carefully instead of being copy pasted straight away. We cant trust other sites and they're only additional sources of information to check.
:::Saggy, please make sure the claims are strong and cannot be questioned or interpreted in any other way (see Sahab's response). This isnt easy but it will be very worth it in the end if you work hard on every claim and get it right. So take your time, there's no hurry.  These error pages are often linked from outside so its important to get them as strong as possible. Sahab is giving you advice here but if you need my help also in any way let me know.  --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 09:51, 21 February 2014 (PST)
::::Yes d site is crappy. The translations thingo, most errors i got are mistranslated to try and hide them. For my article, can u both think of a better name so that we will not sit around wondering whether they are logical?--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 13:27, 21 February 2014 (PST)
:::::Oh, I forgot another q. Where to explain why a claim is strong? In my single article itself?--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 13:31, 21 February 2014 (PST)
::::::Yeah, a quick few lines or a paragraph should be fine in the page itself. About mistranslations; only those 3 main translations are to be used in our Errors pages. If the errors are not apparent in any of them, then that's too bad. Do not include those verses as errors. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 16:16, 21 February 2014 (PST)
:::::::1 more I started. Theres lots u can put [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Sandbox/Qur%27anic_Claim_of_Having_Details here] Im busy.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 08:09, 24 February 2014 (PST)
::::::::I echo Axius' reply to the same message when I say that I too am busy. We all have our own things to do already. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 11:50, 24 February 2014 (PST)
==Edit toolbar==
The new 'emoticons' dropdown next to Help is just a test (also, the new Info tab). I'm checking it out to see whats possible. The examples worked so thats good. I'll be back here after I find out more - lots of possibilities. I'd like to try to move all the stuff at the bottom to the top (so its in one place) and see if thats better than what we have right now. Although there's so much that can fit in this new toolbar, the bad side in my opinion is the extra clicks it takes to get to the item we want, but I guess there's no alternative. We just have to make sure the most often accessed stuff is reachable in the easiest/shortest way (the buttons for example, we can change those). I'll think about it. We can also make new icons for existing text stuff at the bottom. I'll have to look into this more and see.
Also noticed that around 1 out of 10 or 15 times, the new buttons wont show up in the toolbar. Good thing it doesnt happen often and we just need to click the 'edit' links again to reload the toolbar and then the new buttons usually show up. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 19:17, 25 February 2014 (PST)
:Nice. Looks good. The new edit toolbar you made yesterday is also cool. Much neater than the last one. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 08:16, 26 February 2014 (PST)
== Boko Haram ==
this is militia groups, which kills student and infidel. can i build an article (english) for this group?--[[User:Mudul|Mudul]] ([[User talk:Mudul|talk]]) 10:44, 26 February 2014 (PST)
: Yes, you can work on articles in a user sandbox (e.g. [[User:Mudul/Sandbox]], [[User:Mudul/Sandbox 2]], [[User:Mudul/Sandbox 3]]), or in a WikiIslam sandbox like: [[WikiIslam:Sandbox/Name of your article here]] (e.g. [[WikiIslam:Sandbox/Boko Haram]]). [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 14:49, 26 February 2014 (PST)
== Quran details ==
This is a related article: [[Qur%27an_Only_Islam_-_Why_it_is_Not_Possible|Qur'an Only Islam: Why it is Not Possible]] there. I think it should be linked. Dont we link related articles in See Also? See also doesnt only have to contain the "main" top-level topics. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 07:01, 1 March 2014 (PST)
:Oh wait. Is the [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an_Only_Islam_-_Why_it_is_Not_Possible] mainly about the 5 pillars? It doesnt look like it is. Its about the general difficult of being Quran-only so yes I think it should be linked. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 07:08, 1 March 2014 (PST)
::I wrongly thought it was mostly about the 5 pillar. I still have reservations about linking that article because it's in a terrible state, but I'll put it back if that's what you want. The five pillars section shouldn't be there though. It's at odds with the approach Saggy is taking (quoting the verse then explaining why it is insufficient), and they should each be separate. I think Saggy's actually started putting them in individually (the first section on that page is "Charity"). I also don't think the conclusion is needed. This page is like the Errors/Contradictions pages. The conclusions are a little pointless. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 07:26, 1 March 2014 (PST)
:::Ok. If you think its in bad shape and shouldnt be linked that fine, yea we can leave it not linked. I'll take the conclusion out. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 08:31, 1 March 2014 (PST)
::::Cool. Thanks. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 08:43, 1 March 2014 (PST)
== Forum pages ==
We really dont have a lot of discussions to have a need for making separate forum pages for [[WikiIslam:Forum/Help_and_Inquiries|Help and Inquiries]], [[WikiIslam:Forum/Ideas and Suggestions|Ideas and Suggestions]] and then a 3rd General discussion page ([[WikiIslam:Forum]], which had not being used in a long time). So we should keep the [[WikiIslam:Forum/Translation Project|Translation]] page, and move all the contents of other two (Help/inquiries and Ideas/suggestions) into General discussions and a third for Announcements (this 3rd is up to you).
The "Discussions" link in [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] was going to [[WikiIslam:Forum/Ideas and Suggestions]] which isnt the best because if someone doesnt have an idea or suggestion they'll feel they've landed on the wrong page, so I changed that to the main forum page ([[WikiIslam:Forum]]). The General category is where people usually want to post stuff anyway (people dont want to think too hard about where they should post).
Another thing, we can probably delete or move old discussions into 'WikiIslam:Forum/Archives', so nothing too stale is there or it wont look good and encouraging. Thats all I have for now on this. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 16:15, 5 March 2014 (PST)
:Having the Help and Inquiries page makes it easy for new users to find answers to questions that have already been asked. That's why I created it. And I don't agree with the idea that users will feel like they've landed on the wrong page. That discussion page is linked under "Help Needed". It made sense when it linked to the Help and Inquiries page, but not now. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 16:30, 5 March 2014 (PST)
:::H/I isnt being used often [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=WikiIslam:Forum/Help_and_Inquiries&action=history] (last edit 6 months ago) enough to make it the primary link for Discussions. But ok, valid point that Discussions now doesnt make sense for Help needed. Lets move it below Editing Help. Saggy made a number of sections recently on your talk page that should instead be on some kind of "current discussions' page so everyone can respond and they're not really messages specific to only you. Lawrence made that recent topic [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=WikiIslam:Forum/Ideas_and_Suggestions&diff=105264&oldid=102356] on another page (getting to it requires an extra click and eye-scanning). Again we want to make it easy for people to use the Discussion pages and we dont have too many ongoing discussions to need separate pages for these things.
:::Sorry, forgot to respond to "for new users to find answers to questions that have already been asked". If new users ask a question, we can give them a link to the H/I page. Right now we should see what we can do to make an easily accessible discussions page for current users. We can keep the H/I page if you want, but not link it to discussions. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 16:41, 5 March 2014 (PST)
:::: Okay. Yeah, I want to still keep that page. I've moved the discussion link up between the site map and recent changes. It's a more prominent position anyhow [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 16:59, 5 March 2014 (PST)
:::::Ok, even better location then. Wasnt that where it was earlier? lol. I cant remember. I think it was. Anyway. So I'll do that all: move Announcements to a new announcements page (otherwise its like a stick that gets in the way like on forums), move old comments to one single 'archive' page, Ideas/suggestions moved to General discussions (old entries moved to archive). I think that was it. And then I might move Saggy's "Logical errors' section on your page to the General discussions page. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 17:26, 5 March 2014 (PST)
::::::I thought you just said we could keep the Ideas/suggestions page, so I have no idea what you are saying here. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 18:01, 5 March 2014 (PST)
:::::::Oh, sorry, I'm getting mixed up with what you're saying. Maybe you should just do it and I can see what it is? [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 18:03, 5 March 2014 (PST)
::::::::Ok I'm done. So the big thing again is that we have one easily accessible Discussions link for active discussions for current editors. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 18:43, 5 March 2014 (PST)
:::::::::Still not satisfied but its a better situation than before. I'll check again later to see if anything else should be done. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 18:54, 5 March 2014 (PST)
::::::::::You should just go ahead and get rid of the Help & Inquiries page and go ahead with the General discussion/project & task related pages. As long as we still have our Translation Project page it doesn't bother me now. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 14:28, 6 March 2014 (PST)
:::::::::::Ok. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 18:05, 6 March 2014 (PST)
== Menu ==
In the same attempt for making things easier/simpler for editors, I'm investigating this [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=User:Axius/Sandbox42&oldid=105332 new] version of the menu (you can see the comparison in that link easily). All the links useful for editors are in one place.
Currently all of the Editor related links are scattered. 1 link for Discussions at the top | 4 links in Help needed | 2 links in About. These are all links primarily relevant for editors. For starters, the Editing guide should not be in the About section. Its more useful in an area which Editors access. The same goes for policies. Policies are applicable/relevant only if someone is an Editor. The About section then is only 'about us'. The audience type is Reader and Editor and we keep these separate. When a reader is interesting in checking more information about being an editor they look at the Editor section and see all the relevant links, including the Policies link.
We've tried the "Help needed, Join our team" and it didnt help in a huge way, so lets try this Editors/Readers audience separation. I could have moved 'Recent changes' to the editors section too but we've always wanted that link in that area. Although it wouldnt be too bad if we moved it down. In any case, for now the big thing is this new section 'Links for Editors'. Other section names: Editors, Editing, Contributing to WikiIslam, Contributing, Contribute, etc. 'Editing' is good. We are making it easy for Editors to find the links that would be of interest to them and I think it brings editors together closer. Do you have any points that support the current version being superior ''over all'' as compared to the one I'm suggesting? --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 19:29, 5 March 2014 (PST)
:Nope. Sounds good to me. I would also go with "Editing" as the section heading. What about the Core Principles when the are completed? Maybe that can go in the About section? It's policies I know but I think pages like Wikipedia's Five Pillars are of interest to everyone. We could always move it to somewhere else if we think it looks wrong. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 13:52, 6 March 2014 (PST)
::Ok. Yea that could go in the About but I'll have a better idea when the page is ready. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 18:05, 6 March 2014 (PST)
== Core Principles ==
I hadnt even looked at that page [[WikiIslam:Core Principles]] (I was waiting for myself to finish that other community guidelines). Looks pretty good. I should try to create and finish that other page. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 19:22, 7 March 2014 (PST)
:Thanks. Yeah, I'm very pleased with how it's shaping up. It was really good luck for us that the Core Principles ended up as ten shared equally between the two sides (5 for content and 5 for community). It would have looked odd if it was not. As it is, that page should make a very positive impression on people and will allow them to get a good feel of what type of site we are with the minimal amount of text. Because this is about the core, there is no need to be in-depth/off-putting like how some of the other pages may be. It doesn't deal with anything in detail, just the bare necessities. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 19:40, 7 March 2014 (PST)
::Yea that 5/5 looks good. Do you think the icon should be something else other than the atom because thats similar to the atheism symbol [https://www.google.com/search?q=atheist+symbol&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Z4AcU5-KBKLXyAHz3oHgBA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=852] (though I am one myself as you know but the site is neutral to other views). It could be a simple triangular bullet or anything else. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 07:57, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
:::I never realized that. Yeah. I like that symbol a lot, but I have no objection to changing it. I'll try to come up with something different. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 08:07, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
::::Other options, it could be a little hammer icon [https://www.google.com/search?q=judge+hammer+icon&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=rp4cU8HWIKSuyQG-xYAg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=852], [http://www.google.com/imgres?tbm=isch&tbnid=dp7WukEPjYRtrM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djaasports.org%2FBackground-Checks.html&docid=LWz3jSvV0CwgGM&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.djaasports.org%2FRule_Book.jpg&w=280&h=329&ei=0J4cU4-jL8TWyQGu-YHADg&zoom=1&ved=0CJMBEIQcMA4&iact=rc&dur=2800&page=1&start=0&ndsp=29&biw=1920&bih=852 scroll icon], [http://www.google.com/imgres?tbm=isch&tbnid=WqKTKXbwbv3QhM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mrsslibrary.com%2Fabout-your-library%2F&docid=PmNbn-mYrMghrM&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mrsslibrary.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2FRulesIcon.png&w=136&h=143&ei=0J4cU4-jL8TWyQGu-YHADg&zoom=1&ved=0CG8QhBwwAg&iact=rc&dur=426&page=1&start=0&ndsp=29&biw=1920&bih=852 hand], [https://www.google.com/search?biw=1920&bih=852&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=justice+icon&oq=justice+icon&gs_l=img.3...85796.86479.0.86630.8.8.0.0.0.0.164.817.3j4.7.0....0...1c.1.37.img..6.2.237.4ppChEHFiMg justice], [https://www.google.com/search?biw=1920&bih=852&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=book+icon&oq=book+icon&gs_l=img.3..0i10l10.48175.48716.0.48834.5.5.0.0.0.0.156.406.2j2.4.0....0...1c.1.37.img..3.2.105.yca1GU71H20 book] etc. or some kind of bullet or shape. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 10:06, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::Yea that looks good now. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 10:09, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
== Common messages ==
How about making some templates for common messages e.g. content move [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pozvani_k_Islamu_pred_pouzitim_nasili]. The message would be left for the person who was working on the page. Inputs would be old and new page.
:"I thought I would let you know that a page or section which you created or were involved in has been moved from <nowiki>[[</nowiki>---]] to <nowiki>[[</nowiki>---]]. Please note the new location of this page. Thank you."
The template name can be "talkmessage-moved". Any other messages that are commonly left for users should be templated (subst'd, actually, like the 'unsigned' template ) so we dont have to write them every time and its easy to leave the message. It might be that he choose the user page because it was an easy click on the top left. This software should have an easy click link for Sandboxes too.--[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 17:27, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
:[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_messages/User_talk_namespace] Long list of similiar messages at wikipedia to look at as examples. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 17:39, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
:::Yeah, definitely. That would make life so much easier for us on the wiki. If they are not too technical for me, I will try to create some. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 17:43, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
::::They look easy so far. Use the format of un- (user-notice) as names of the templates instead of uw- (which is user warning; notice is more inclusive). They have these view pages also which allow us to see the templates: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_messages/User_talk_namespace/Multi-level_templates multi level], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_messages/User_talk_namespace/Single-level_templates single level]. Doesnt look like we should have a lot so thats good and we can make more as we see the need. We can link these in the Edit toolbar/sections for easy access. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 18:28, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::Easiest to first make a list of the kind of messages that would be used: content or page moved (same template?). Your article has been finalized and linked. Article was moved to the Sandbox namespace. Article deleted. Edit reverted (used only for existing users), uses 3 parameters: target article, username and reason for revert. Obvious vandalism (no messages needed for that). User renamed (may not be useful since they wont know what the new username is, but ok). 
:::::Thats all I can think of for now that could be useful for us. Most of what they have wouldnt be used here. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 19:23, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
{{Outdent|5}}Oh. Those messages look very serious. I was thinking more in the line of the example you gave and integrating similar messages into our own.
For example, say a new user make a decent edit, but doesn't format it properly. We could leave a message like (I have no idea how the real template would be formatted so I've taken liberties):
:<nowiki>{{talkpage-welcome|username}}((talkpage-issues|article|formatting|~~~~))</nowiki>
Which would produce something like:
:Hi Ahmad and welcome to WikiIslam, the online resource on Islam. Our policies and guidelines can be viewed [[WikiIslam:Policies and Guidelines|here]]. If you need any further clarification on an issue, let me or one of the [[:Category:Administrators|administrators]] know. I noticed your additions to [[Islam]] were not formatted correctly. Please read [[WikiIslam:Formatting]] for help with how to format wiki pages. Thanks [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 20:17, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
This way, it would ensure that everyone is greeted with a short but polite and to the point message. We could mix and match these templates for common messages to new users. What do you think? [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 20:17, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
:Yea thats fine, for new users and also for existing (a page was moved, etc) . --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 20:39, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
::Cool. Thanks. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 22:02, 9 March 2014 (PDT)
:::Created a template as a test, [[Template:Utalk-content-moved]] entered by: <nowiki>{{</nowiki>subst:Utalk-content-moved|old page|new page}}. Tested at: [[User:Axius/Sandbox48]]. It also addressed the username successfully. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 11:25, 10 March 2014 (PDT)
::::Okay. Thanks for that. It should help me understand how these thing work. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 14:27, 10 March 2014 (PDT)
==Issue with the Details article==
Since I can't really see any relevant sub-sections to divide this list into, I've arranged them all in alphabetical order. This way there is at least some method behind its order. however, I've noticed another issue.
This article deals with the lack of detail and clarity in the Qur'an. So for example, Abu Lahab and Blowing on Knots is fine. The Qur'an mentions these things and fails to clarify issues directly related to them (i.e. mentioning "those who blow on knots" but leaving readers without a clue concerning their identity). But there are other subjects that cannot be blamed directly on the Qur'an. For instance, the Five Pillars (in general) and (in part) Ablution. The Qur'an never mentions the Five Pillars, so the lack of detail concerning them in the Qur'an is not a defect of the Qur'an but Islam. Similarly, ablution is described very well in the Qur'an. The fact that hadith add more to the Qur'an's instructions is not a defect/lack of detail in the Qur'an (although the second criticism i.e. "The purpose of this excessive (ritual) cleanliness is omitted" is perfectly valid). The same problem exists in the fasting section where some of the criticism is valid but others are not.
So these two things may be related, but they are distinct. How should we deal with this? [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 17:31, 25 March 2014 (PDT)
:Saggy any thoughts? --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 18:28, 25 March 2014 (PDT)
::What do you guys think of [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=WikiIslam%3ASandbox%2FQur%27anic_Claim_of_Having_Details&diff=106340&oldid=106339 this] addition? It explains the difference and also justifies the Five Pillars section not follow the usual "quote a verse" format. Five Pillar is an important thing so I think that section being included is fine, but can you imagine how many thousands of rules there are in Islam that are never mentioned in the Qur'an? It would be silly to allow minor things to creep into that article, because then there is no logical reason to not include thousands of others. Major issues that are not in the Qur'an seem reasonable. Maybe if we can come up with a few more we could give it its own sub-section in the article? Worth a thought. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 06:52, 27 March 2014 (PDT)
:::I was thinking we can also use the headline "Practices and Rituals in Islam" for that section or something like that and keep the "five pillars" in the text narrative. I agree, the major things in Islam should be mentioned in that article and the smaller stuff can be left out because that would be a lot. I dont know what to do with Ablution. How about Hajj or Zakat, I bet that too is not described in detail. I dont know though. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 10:04, 27 March 2014 (PDT)
::::Which is why all 5 pillars did not go in here. . But I still would have preferred if you keep those subsections in five pillars. fasting before 5 pillars? That looks wiyerd. Like that we could go on having lots of verseless sections to put more blames. Order? Not sure if alphabetical is the best. I followed numerical order so that there is no chance of duplication for users when they expand anywhere.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:54, 27 March 2014 (PDT)
::::::The criticism about "the certain number of days" is a valid criticism concerning a lack of detail in the Qur'an, so it's fine that "Fasting" is listed separately from the "Five Pillars" section which is dealing with another distinct problem within the Qur'an. I did suggest grouping the other type of error in a separate list on the same page (this would eliminate the problem of it looking weird).
::::::Following the numerical order would not help other users in the slightest. [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=WikiIslam:Sandbox/Qur%27anic_Claim_of_Having_Details&oldid=105823#Makers_of_the_Pit_of_Fire This old revision] is in numerical order. If an editor wanted to add a verse from surah 90, how would they know where to look? They wouldn't. They'd have to look through the entire list until they find it. Even if they could find it easily, some issues are covered in more than 1 surah, making a numerical order meaningless. At least with an alphabetical order, it looks a lot better and both editors and readers could find errors based on their subject matter a lot easier (obviously if they're looking for "Ablution", they'd know to look near the beginning etc.).
::::::As a side note; there are some extremely obvious subjects missing, such as Jizyah and Muhammad himself. I will try to add these. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 14:36, 27 March 2014 (PDT)
==Qur'an 86:7 article (and rationale for certain Article Style and Content guidelines)==
[http://yahyasnow.wordpress.com/2009/08/23/quran-got-it-right-about-semen-production/] contains a quote:“If one was to insist upon the literal meaning (the translation favoured by the critics), one would still find that the Quran is 100% correct literally, too.  The seminal vesicles are anterior to the sacrum and coccyx (lower back, loin) and the ribs are anterior to the seminal vesicles. If one was to draw a line from the tip of the coccyx, to the upper portion of the seminal vesicle _ either one of the two_ and extend the line forward it will catch the ribcage.The seminal vesicles from which the semen spurts out during coitus, lies between the ribs and the coccyx (backbone)!” Ther'es a diagram against the claim[http://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/717/flashcards/2088717/png/1-anatomy1362422086336.png]. Then shall we add a section in this article?[http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an_and_Semen_Production_(Qur%27an_86:7)] --[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 04:37, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
:When making edits to articles, your additions should not be made in a vacuum. The article as a whole needs to be considered. Most times, editors add material that do not go with what is already on the page and the article ends up like a patchwork, reading terribly. If a new section is added, I'd have to make some changes to the whole article. A "Miscellaneous" section or maybe a "Responses to Apologetics" section could be added at the end for dealing with these obscure sort of claims from non-notable people. But that diagram can't be put into the page (nobody wants to see a picture of a penis in the middle of the page. Plus, that diagram doesn't explain anything). It could be linked to in a ref tag. So go ahead if you want to write a response, but make sure the response is conveyed clearly through words. Explain in words why that claim is wrong. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 11:21, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
::This case i non-notable. What title to give: "Responses to other claims", "Miscellaneous claims"? So far there is only 1 such claim to respond.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:32, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
:::There is a second non-notable apologetic[http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=86&verse=1&to=17] Now is it enough to add?--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:51, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
::::I already said it's okay to add, only that the way it is added and what is added needs to be considered. They could be added under one section like [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=Quran_and_Semen_Production&curid=3161&diff=105834&oldid=103679 this] (just press the right edit but in that link). [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 11:53, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::Good job on that. Those were well written responses.[[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 15:33, 15 March 2014 (PDT)
::::::Why do u remove the claim links? How would anybody even know that such claims have been made? We need the claimer's name atleast if not the link.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 08:28, 16 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::::I noticed that too but if you see, the other quotes dont have references (quotes which are being rebutted). The existing material should have had URL's but it was taken from the FFI forum and I guess it did not have those references there. I would be fine either way although I'm partial towards keeping the links since they might change their website and claim they hadnt written it.
:::::::I've looked at this section and it looks fine to me although I dont have enough medical knowledge to evaluate the rebuttal. I feel it can be improved. Is it possible to add medical references for the rebuttal? For example [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejaculation wikipedia] may have some information about the cause of ejaculation or anything else that supports the rebuttal.
:::::::Also this comment section should be moved to the talk page of the article. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 09:20, 16 March 2014 (PDT)
::::::::Those websites are unlikely to change. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semen this] is the ref for the rebuttal. No need of medic-  you can evaluate second one from an image i linked at start of this thread. It has no ribs but imagine ribs at a good height above the image; then imagine a line drawn from the bottom backbone.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:42, 16 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::Thats a big wikipedia article and cant be used for a ref. I know the other responses arent using many refs but if you used some it would make that section "rebuttal" proof. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 12:01, 16 March 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::I vote for this response to be deferred to the tasks page until there can be more references and a stronger response. I dont know enough to evaluate it. One way to refine these kinds of responses is to debate them on forums and see the responses and then adjust the rebuttal as needed. Anyway its up to you and Sahab. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 14:36, 16 March 2014 (PDT)
{{Outdent|10}}I agree with Axius' suggestion for this response to be deferred to the tasks page. If that route is taken we could always keep the material that is already there in a hidden comment. The problem I now see with the response is that it's pretty hard to understand.
Concerning the references for claims made by apologists; Axius is right that most of them were missing. But the reason why I removed those last two links from the "Miscellaneous" section was because (as I've advised other users) we're not an "interfaith" or "dialogue" site, so unless it's someone very notable, we do not respond to specific apologists. Instead we respond to the general arguments raised, if those arguments merit a response at all. The last thing we want is to get drawn into a slagging match with some insignificant guy on a blog. Ideally their claims wouldn't even be quoted; they would be presented in our own words. Take for example, "[[Responses to Apologetics - Muhammad and Aisha|Responses to Apologetics: Muhammad and Aisha]]". I refuted most of those claims after I encountered them from apologists, but {{underline|I did not quote or reference a single apologist}}. Every claim is summarized in my own words, and this actually makes the page stronger because my words are a lot more concise and easier to understand than the words of illiterate apologists. Now what way is more universal and professional; refuting the arguments as a whole or refuting only individual, obscure internet apologists? So, no, I would say we do not need the claimer's name at all. In fact, aiming the response at a specific non-notable guy would unnecessarily weaken the page because it would then necessitate proof that (quoting Saggy's words) "such claims have been made". With my approach, it wouldn't make a difference if an individual removed a claim they made, because we are dealing with the argument, not the person who is making them. Besides, that particular claim would not be limited to that one particular person. Many others would be using it too on forums, blogs etc. Take [[Responses_to_Apologetics_-_Muhammad_and_Aisha#Mary_married_90-year-old_Joseph_when_she_was_only_12.2C_so_Joseph_was_a_pedophile_too|argument number 23]] as an example. That same Osama guy uses that argument. But why should we direct our response to one individual when thousands of people make the same claim? [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 16:42, 16 March 2014 (PDT)
:Yea. I think its a good idea to have a response thats 'generic' and doesnt name or quote specific mini blog sites. That way it can be used against any site that makes such claims, not just one. It makes it tougher to deal with the rebuttal because we need to generalize the claims being made but its a better way in the long run and I agree, it makes the site look better. And yea thats the way we've tried to go in the past. So I guess ideally the other claims would also be generic first and then name certain people (unless notable).
: How about putting these tips in the Style Content Guide, in a section called "Writing Responses to Apologetic Claims" (or 'for Apologists'). --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 19:48, 16 March 2014 (PDT)
::Cool. I'll add those tips to that page. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 19:53, 16 March 2014 (PDT)
:::Thanks. I reverted the changes and added the task to the tasks list at #6 in this section. [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Tasks#Qur.27an] so it can be re-evaluated in the future. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 20:17, 17 March 2014 (PDT)
::::I edited some of it, but can we expect a generic argument? Is this backbone-ribs a hot topic recently? Anyway, the claims looks slimmer now. Soures are not even needed. Its all obvious in an image search whether it is vesicles or anything else. <small>&mdash;Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Saggy |Saggy ]] ([[User talk:Saggy |talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Saggy |contribs]]) {{#if:04:36, 21 March 2014|&#32; 04:36, 21 March 2014|}} ([[WikiIslam:Signatures#Signing_Posts|Remember to sign your comments]]) </small>
:::::Well, when we say "generic", we don't really mean the argument, but the wording of the argument, so that it could be made by a generic (i.e. any) apologist. You've edited those claims but in essence they're still the same arguments, so that's fine. About sources; do you know the origin of that diagram you linked to? Was it from a medical journal or site? If we knew that, we could just link to that in a ref tag. It would also be good to have a source for the % of semen. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 06:52, 21 March 2014 (PDT)
::::::i got nother[http://www.columbia.edu/itc/hs/pubhealth/modules/reproductiveHealth/anatomy.html]. 4th pic from top.  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 09:31, 21 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::::Thanks, I'll cite that now. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 22:10, 21 March 2014 (PDT)
::::::::I got one notable claim.--[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 06:14, 22 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::Cool. Can you reword it so it is not asking questions? See #6 [http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Article_Style_and_Content_Guide#Style_.26_Tone] . [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 06:17, 22 March 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::Check the saved text now. hows it?[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 12:50, 28 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::It's better. However, both of these two additional individuals are not making scientific arguments but claiming it either as a metaphor or a euphemism. So I think they would be better suited in a simplified form under a "Responses to Apologetics" section after the conclusion (e.g. see [[72 Virgins]]). I will try to edit and show you what I mean. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 13:23, 28 March 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::::Actually scrap that thought. Yusuf Ali does try to throw around a lot of "scientific sounding" jargon, so that would probably be okay, but I think Muhammad Ali's claim can be merged into the third response to Amjad. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 13:28, 28 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::::Now go ahead?[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 08:25, 30 March 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::::::I'll take a proper look at when I can. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 18:55, 30 March 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::::::I've had a look at it, and your response doesn't make sense, or at least it is not worded clearly enough for it to be apparent. You mention that Yusuf Ali "does not explain what he means by seed: Sperm, semen, ovum or zygote". But then fail to expand on that by explaining how or why it matters. Then you say "But he does not say what a rib is, metaphorically." However, Yusuf Ali is not claiming the rib is anything metaphorically. I don't think we even need to respond to Yusuf Ali's metaphor claim, but if we do it, then the response should be clear and decisive. I don't think this is either. You can ask Axius to comment here if you want a second opinion. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 10:58, 31 March 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::::::::Fixed.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:57, 31 March 2014 (PDT)
== Hans Raj ==
I thought it would be nice to have some of questions still answered by MyMagic like (#1 in particular):
#What are the news stories about in the image posted under Yuvraj Hans' Facebook post? Are they claiming Hans converted or not?
#Are Navraj and Yuvraj, Hans Raj Hans' only children?
#You wrote that Hans Raj Hans rejected the claims of a conversion on February 21, but there are news reports available (including one you yourself use as a reference) that are dated February 20. Am I missing something here or was that an error on your part?
Great to have this page. 200K results for "hands raj" Islam so it will help everyone involved. Nice work in finalizing it. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 00:55, 30 March 2014 (PDT)
:Cool. I've left a message for him asking those questions and pointing out the differences between what [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=Hans_Raj_Hans_-_Conversion_to_Islam&oldid=106071 he submitted] and what [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Hans_Raj_Hans_-_Conversion_to_Islam we have now] with the Hans Raj page. As I said to MyMagics, not a single word remains from the original. The differences between the two is actually quite shocking. Maybe being shown something like this is a good way to show editors what we expect? It was actually worse when the Sunita Williams page was created. If I remember correctly, there was no article there because his scant bit of analysis was faulty and almost all of the research behind that was done by myself. I don't get it. It seems when we get editors they almost ''never'' put any effort into it (this obviously does not include rare editors like Atheistig who are great). These editors are obviously drawn to us through our reputation and existing high-quality content, then start creating pages that are lower quality and more rushed than the average blog post (and I am not using hyperbole when I say that). How do they think we could ever maintain our quality with such submissions; by using a wiki fairy maybe? lol. I think the problem is expectations (contradictory ones at that). They expect others to do the legwork, additional research, cleaning up etc. while at the same time expect us to accept anything as a new article irrelevant of its quality. I suppose this is imparted on editors by Wikipedia's silly approach to certain things (but look at the terrible state of the majority of their content). Yeah, so this has made me think that we desperately need some way to inspire editors into putting more effort into their contributions and try to be more self reliant (as opposed to expecting there to always be someone there to bring things up to standard). [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 04:10, 30 March 2014 (PDT)
::Oh yea I see now, that version was nothing when he submitted it and he didnt do anything significant after that. I dont know how to make others do it like we do. That would be tough and people sadly arent interested in putting in the effort. Most visitors dont bother at all and make no edits and most of the people who do make edits just do the basics (we are grateful for whatever we get). Its sad but its the way things are. Do you think two new pages could be made that are copies of these versions to show people what needs to be done? And maybe a list of checkpoints of things they need to learn (things that you had to do, researching stuff, formatting it correctly etc). They still might not be bothered but we can try. How to create a good Article. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 06:40, 30 March 2014 (PDT)
:::Yeah, most visitors don't make edits but that is perfectly normal. They are here making use of the information available, which is fantastic. Same with editors who do basic things, such as typos or small corrections. I think those small things are just as important in the long run and appreciate it a lot when I see IP editors making such edits. It's not really the amount editors contribute that is important, but the quality of what they contribute.
:::Keeping copies of those pages and making the article you suggested may be useful. We'll probably need more examples though. I suppose more of those will come in time. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 18:47, 30 March 2014 (PDT)
::::Agreed. Ok sounds good. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 19:17, 31 March 2014 (PDT)
== Snake ==
I had actually checked this [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Animals&curid=5616&diff=106466&oldid=106465]. 1844 is linked on that page (in 'see also' somewhere) but not quoted and mentions "snake". Thats why I had left it in. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 16:01, 31 March 2014 (PDT)
:Abu dawud 10:1844 mentions the snake, scorpion, rat, crow, dog and the kite so if we were going to keep it, it should not have been under a sub-section named "Snake". Only a few sections above it we have a sub-section called "Killing Crows, Kites, Mice, Scorpions and Dogs" where we quote a sahih hadith that says they all must be killed. Abu dawud 10:1844 says the crow must NOT be killed and contradicts the sahih hadith. You could move that hadith up to there if you want, but I fail to see what we'll gain by adding that there and confusing readers. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 20:54, 31 March 2014 (PDT)
::Ok looks good with them expanded now. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 17:52, 1 April 2014 (PDT)
== Featured Articles ==
I feel there is a lot of good content in [[Template:Pictorial-Islam-options]] and it needs more exposure (a lot of work went into writing it up). How about also making a page called "[[WikiIslam:Featured Articles]]", putting all the stuff in (as is, no random function - just a long list, categorizing it if possible) and then linking it on the left (maybe below Site map). And then renaming the "Pictorial Islam" on the main page as "Featured Articles" (and then see more Featured articles). Like how Rational wiki has a "best of RW" link at the left. [http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page]. Or some other way to give those articles more exposure.  --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 07:27, 5 April 2014 (PDT)
:I don't know. The "Pictorial Islam" template also links to library content, and to other things which are high quality, but I don't think would be right in a "Featured Articles" list (e.g. [[Universal Declaration of Human Rights]]). I'm not saying I'm against the idea, only that we can't really use that template to decide what should be "featured". I think we discussed this a while ago and commented on how hard it would be to choose what articles would go there. I still feel the same. I could easily point out articles that are crap (luckily they are only a few), but picking articles that I think are good would result in me picking practically everything we have. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 07:40, 5 April 2014 (PDT)
::The thing with RationalWiki and other similar wikis, I would assume, is that they're a lot more lenient towards what they allow on there (just imagine some of the material here that have been deleted or moved out of the mainspace). So they have a lot more scope when putting together such a page. With us, most of the content, especially the new stuff, can be regarded as "featured content" simply because it's hosted on the site. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 07:57, 5 April 2014 (PDT)
:::Come to think of it, it would be slightly redundant when you consider our main page is basically a "Featured Articles" page in itself (although I would take a few off if it was a "Featured Articles" page ). [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 08:05, 5 April 2014 (PDT)
::::Oh, yea I remember now we had talked about this before. Alright then. If I have time I might put it in a sandbox page just to see what such a collection looks like if laid out on the page. Agreed that it would be hard to choose featured articles because they're all or (most of them) "featured" since they're approved to be in the main space. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 08:26, 5 April 2014 (PDT)
==Details not ready yet?==
I thought you finished the prose. What more is left to do? [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 12:47, 5 April 2014 (PDT)
:Yeah, it's ready. It can be created now if you really want, but now that those conversion pages are done, I was hoping to spend a good day or so on it to see what else I could find. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 12:59, 5 April 2014 (PDT)
::Make it. Later we'll see if theres something to add. I don't think there is much left : could be 5 or 6 more.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 13:56, 5 April 2014 (PDT)
""And among His Signs, He shows you the lightning, by way both of fear and of hope, and He sends down rain""(Q 30:24) Sc. error? Lightning is not explained, just atributed to him. And it is used as a fear.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 04:40, 10 April 2014 (PDT)
:I would disagree. Lightening does cause emotions (fear, or awe [https://www.google.com/search?biw=1920&bih=852&q=thunder+lighting+fear&oq=thunder+lighting+fear&gs_l=serp.3..0i22i30.18880.19209.0.19356.4.4.0.0.0.0.137.447.1j3.4.0.chm_loc%2Chmss2%3Dfalse%2Chmnts%3D50000...0...1.1.40.serp..0.4.444.-EBm0z8SUYY]). Lack of the explanation doesnt mean an error. It can be explained by the apologist. So probably not too strong. Again you can still move any verses to your own sandbox for later evaluation and any notes. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki>
[[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 06:04, 10 April 2014 (PDT)
You left?[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 04:07, 15 April 2014 (PDT)
:Not sure what happened. Hopefully he's just taking a break. In my opinion minor disagreements should not cause anyone to become upset like he apparently did. One issue was the Quran/hadith topic which could be argued both ways as our discussion[http://wikiislam.net/wiki/User_talk:Saggy#Contradictions_in_the_Qur.27an_and_Hadith] showed. The other issue was me asking you to use [[forum]] page and not his talk pages for general issues. He himself had [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sahab&diff=106769&oldid=106768 moved] a discussion from his talk page to the forum page. Although I believe it was nothing to get upset about I did apologize to him and said I would mention it at another time.
:I've been concerned with the community environment and how to preserve it. Me and him have worked hard on creating [[WikiIslam:Talk Pages]] and [[WikiIslam:Core Principles]]. These guidelines must to be followed at all times if teamwork on this site is to be preserved.
:I'm trying to think of ways we can reach out to people and grow our community further. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 05:25, 15 April 2014 (PDT)
::Yeah, I was taking a break and reevaluating things (see number 10 on the Core Principles). Can't an editor do that without having it made into an issue on his talk page? Saggy simply asked if I had left. Your first two sentences in the reply would have sufficed, rather than you spreading stuff onto here and taking a dig at a long-term user who may not return to provide a reply. FYI if you think there was nothing for me to get upset about, then there is not much I can say to that. It's hard to believe and I'm pretty sure most people would disagree with you. I also do not appreciate you putting strikethroughs over my text. If something is not acceptable, then it should be removed, not altered. The fact that you would do that shows a lot of disrespect. Our own talk page guidelines says this is not acceptable. So does [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#Editing_comments Wikipedia's]:
:::''"Never edit or move someone's comment to change its meaning, even on your own talk page. <u>Striking text constitutes a change in meaning</u>, and should only be done by the user who wrote it or someone acting at their explicit request."'' [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 17:57, 23 April 2014 (PDT)
::::Ok I removed the comments instead of the strike through. Yea I see now that strike through should be done by the editor themselves. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 18:57, 23 April 2014 (PDT)
== Civility rules ==
Now that we have talk page guidelines and the Core principles in place, we will need to start enforcing them strictly. I feel that this is crucial going forward if we are to expect our site to grow (just like there are rules that everyone in a work environment must follow to keep chaos at bay and if those rules aren't enforced, they aren't any good). If I say anything that goes against these rules, you or anyone else can remove my comments anytime. If there are problems with any policies, we can address those with discussion. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 19:48, 16 April 2014 (PDT)
== Multi-lingual sites ==
If you remember once it happened that 4 hours had passed between the time an anonymous user on the RU site made an edit and the time you blocked or deleted/removed that comment. I had talked to you about this at that time and mentioned that we should not be interfering in the administration of the RU site. I had then left a message on their talk page letting them know they can administer their site in any way they like.
So as per: [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Policies_and_Guidelines#Sub-Domains]
:''Once launched, they are free to evolve separately to the English site in style and content as long as the core principles are followed i.e. no politics, no promotion or criticism of other religions/worldviews and no opinions, only referenced facts concerning Islam.''
Please dont make edits/deletes/blocks/moves on the RU site unless its an emergency or unless its non-administrative like making an inter-wiki link or any edit or action you know which will not be contested. There are administrators and users there who prefer to handle the site in whatever way they think is appropriate.
Previously they have replied to comments on talk pages so nothing should be done to interrupt the way they administer the site.
Does the current policy need to be more clear? --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 16:03, 24 April 2014 (PDT)
:Nope. I'll avoid visiting the RU site in the future. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 18:15, 24 April 2014 (PDT)
::I didn't say we have to completely avoid it. Just keep an eye out as to whats going on (if you want) and you can make non-administrative edits (interwiki links, anything else that cannot be contested). Just leave the administration stuff to them. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 18:19, 24 April 2014 (PDT)
==Edits==
My browser is playing up and making my edits behave strangely. I'll come back later when it's sorted. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 12:16, 30 July 2014 (PDT)
== Tagging ==
== Tagging ==


Line 308: Line 24:
::::::Ok. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 04:12, 31 July 2014 (PDT)
::::::Ok. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 04:12, 31 July 2014 (PDT)


== Tips for you ==
== Suggestion ==


If you spent a very long time here, why dont you go ahead publishing its contents (partially) on other sites and blogs and forums? I know some sites will moderate out our posts but we need those who won't. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:07, 31 July 2014 (PDT)
If you spent a very long time here, why dont you go ahead publishing its contents (partially) on other sites and blogs and forums? I know some sites will moderate out our posts but we need those who won't. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:07, 31 July 2014 (PDT)
Line 385: Line 101:
::I agree. I liked that too, 'prophet Farside'. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 02:39, 7 August 2014 (PDT)
::I agree. I liked that too, 'prophet Farside'. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 02:39, 7 August 2014 (PDT)


== Mistaken images ==
== Images ==


Hello, I stumbled accross this site on the [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Images_of_Jihad_-_Indonesia Images of Jihad (Indonesia)] and [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Images_of_Jihad_-_Indonesia_-_Killings_Various_Dates Images of Jihad (Indonesia): Killings, Various Dates] articles, and there are several pictures which are mislabelled and have nothing to do with religious violence.
Hello, I stumbled accross this site on the [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Images_of_Jihad_-_Indonesia Images of Jihad (Indonesia)] and [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Images_of_Jihad_-_Indonesia_-_Killings_Various_Dates Images of Jihad (Indonesia): Killings, Various Dates] articles, and there are several pictures which are mislabelled and have nothing to do with religious violence.


Chinese didn't actually get killed in the streets on May 1998. What happened was Indonesian looters attacked Chinese shops and tried stealing from them, but accidently started a fire and burned themselves to death instead. And then after that, dozens of rapes were reported against the Chinese. Most violence against Chinese was not killing, but attempted looting and raping. And thats no whitewashing of what happened, since rape is a very repulsive act.
Chinese didn't actually get killed in the streets on May 1998. What happened was Indonesian looters attacked Chinese shops and tried stealing from them, but accidently started a fire and burned themselves to death instead. And then after that, dozens of rapes were reported against the Chinese. Most violence against Chinese was not killing, but attempted looting and raping. [https://web.archive.org/web/20020615225114/http://www.serve.com/inside/digest/dig86.htm] [http://www.library.ohiou.edu/indopubs/1998/05/31/0029.html] [http://books.google.com/books?id=bCsgAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA34#v=onepage&q&f=false] And thats no whitewashing of what happened, since rape is a very repulsive act.


The images of people getting killed on the streets and beheaded are from other incidents, like Dayaks vs Madurese in Kalimantan, in Sampit, Sambas, and Indonesians going on a witch hunt in Banyuwangi.
The images of people getting killed on the streets and beheaded are from other incidents, like Dayaks vs Madurese in Kalimantan, in Sampit, Sambas, and Indonesians going on a witch hunt in Banyuwangi.


Dayaks (non-Muslims) and Malays (Muslims) both participated in killing Madurese (Muslims). It was not religious, but ethnic hatred.
Dayaks (non-Muslims) and Malays (Muslims) both participated in killing Madurese (Muslims). It was not religious, but ethnic hatred. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia-pacific/1186401.stm]
 
The images labeled as "Chinese" victims, are actually Madurese getting killed by Dayaks, or suspected "witches" getting killed in Banyuwangi. The people in those photos are all non-Chinese.
 
The original sources can be seen here- [http://www.fica.org/hr/lain/lain4.htm] [http://www.fica.org/hr/ambon/ambon1/Sanggauledo1.html] [http://www.fica.org/hr/ambon/ambon1/Sanggauledo2.html] [http://www.oocities.org/~budis1/article/head_hunter2.htm] [http://www.fica.org/hr/Sanggauledo.html] [http://ceritaindonesia.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/dayak-vs-madura1.jpg]
 
You can see that the Banyuwangi riots were not related to Muslims vs non-Muslims. [http://www.insideindonesia.org/weekly-articles/the-banyuwangi-murders]
 
There IS real religious violence in Indonesia, like the images of the girl beheaded by Islamists in Sulawesi, but these other images are incorrect.
 
These are the specific images which should be removed- [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_17.jpg&filetimestamp=20110716082447&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e1.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145124&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e2.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145136&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e3.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145149&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e4.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145205&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e5.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145219&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e6.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145232&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_19.jpg&filetimestamp=20110716082509&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e7.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145244&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e8.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145256&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_10.jpg&filetimestamp=20110716082327&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_13.jpg&filetimestamp=20110716082403&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_15.jpg&filetimestamp=20110716082425&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_17.jpg&filetimestamp=20110716082447&] [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e9.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145309&]
 
Its because some idiots on internet forums in China heard what was going on in Indonesia in May 1998 with looting of Chinese stores and rapes, so when they looked up "Indonesia riots" on the internet, they got the wrong photos, and pasted these photos all over their forums. This is how these photos originally got mislabelled.
 
In Myanmar, some Islamists falsely took photos of Tsunami victims, earthquake victims in China, and of Tibetan protestors setting themselves on fire, and labelled them as Rohingya Muslims getting killed by Burmese Buddhists. [http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-Central/2012/0803/Pakistan-s-extremists-whip-up-frenzy-over-Burma-s-Muslims]  [http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/12867/social-media-is-lying-to-you-about-burmas-muslim-cleansing/] [http://www.irrawaddy.org/rohingya/canadian-ngo-protests-rohingya-misinformation.html] [http://archive.thedailystar.net/beta2/news/where-lies-reign-supreme/] [http://www.globalresearch.ca/fake-photos-with-dead-bodies-in-media-reports-on-myanmar-conflict/5302994] [http://tibet.net/2012/08/04/pak-extremists-exaggerating-violence-against-burmas-muslims-to-fund-own-agendas/]
 
What happened here is not deliberate like what those Islamists did, but it still needs to be corrected. In fact you can create an article about fake images used by Islamists in the Rohingya conflict instead. [[User:Cleft|Cleft]] ([[User talk:Cleft|talk]]) 23:22, 10 August 2014 (PDT)


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia-pacific/1186401.stm
:Cool. Thanks for that info. I will read through those links you provided and sort them out soon when I get time. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 01:04, 11 August 2014 (PDT)
::Thanks again for bringing this issue to my attention. It has now been sorted. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 14:30, 20 August 2014 (PDT)
 
== You have some time? ==
 
Axius is gone for days. Do you have the time to review one or two additions per day? Then I will make them at that rate. Also I have many hadiths on angels. eg, giant angels, carriers of the throne. Is is best fit for QHS cosmology or a new QHS? [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 05:42, 7 September 2014 (PDT)
:Saggy, I'm sorry, I don't. It's probably best to stick with sandboxes (that goes for your angel query too), as Axius advised. I'm only helping out as a transitional courtesy here and will soon be winding down my own editing further. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 00:47, 8 September 2014 (PDT)
 
== Page for Editing Permissions==
 
I was thinking of renaming "http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Pending_Changes_Protection" to 'Editing Permissions' or something (Editing Rights, Editing privileges) so it can be more broad and we can talk about protection of pages in more situations (vandalism or new editors or those who have been told not to edit the main space). I'll think about it and maybe make a page in Sandbox.
 
Also I feel editors who have been told not to edit main space should not be listed on the Editors [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Meet_the_Editors] page. I'm guessing you'd agree with that. That would only mean removing Saggy (which I had added myself). I feel we want to represent editors who display at least a minimum level of good judgement. That would mean that if they've been asked not to edit main space, that doesnt show good judgement and we dont want people to see them and think they are examples of good editors. Nothing bad on them of course. If they improve their work in Sandboxes they can always be considered regular editors when they are allowed back on main space (slim chance of that happening but we want to be open to that possibility otherwise we might appear to be unkind). I've included this [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=WikiIslam%3AMeet_the_Editors&diff=109814&oldid=109618 note] as a comment on that page. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 09:55, 22 September 2014 (PDT)
:Yeah, I agree about the "Meet the Editors" page. I'll do that now. Concerning a "Editing Permissions" page, the idea is good, but I don't think the "Pending Changes Protection" page needs to be renamed for it. Rather, the "Editing Permissions" page could be its own separate page that links out from the "Pending Changes Protection" page (probably could add an inline link from [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Pending_Changes_Protection#Can_my_edits_be_reviewed_automatically.3F this] section]). The subject of both pages is pretty distinct and so will be the pages linking to them. The new "Editing Permissions" page could include content from [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Help:Contents#New_Users this] section of the help page. Maybe it shouldn't be called "Editing Permissions" but some other name that makes it clear that it is the first port of call for new editors? [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 11:17, 22 September 2014 (PDT)
::Yea I guess it would be better to have a new page on it. I cant think of any other name other than Editing permissions. Hmmmmm. How about these titles from Wikipedia:
::* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:User_access_levels
::* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editing_restrictions
::* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editorial_oversight_and_control
::* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Quality_control
::--[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 17:55, 22 September 2014 (PDT)
:::Actually, after reading [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Help:Contents#New_Users this] section of the help page again, isn't that what you basically want to put on this new page? In that case, what about, "[[WikiIslam:Note to New Users]]," or "[[WikiIslam:Message to New Users]]"? That page could then also mention and link to the Required Reading list. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 20:36, 22 September 2014 (PDT)
::::Ok I'll try to expand that section on the Help page first and see how it looks and then maybe move it to a new page. Maybe I just need to add a few lines. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 03:48, 23 September 2014 (PDT)
:::::No need. I've created [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Message_to_New_Users that page] for you :) That what quicker to complete than I expected. I've now linked it from other pages etc. Let me know what you think. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 09:39, 24 September 2014 (PDT)
::::::Thats great. I think its a good idea to have a page just for new editors so they're more likely to read it and take this stuff more seriously. I linked it on [[MediaWiki:Welcomecreation]]. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 17:13, 25 September 2014 (PDT)
:::::::Thanks for fixing the Account Creation page. The policies group looks good drawing more attention to it. All of the recent changes should help quality control. And Sandbox pages look good too. I'll see if there's an easy way to auto populate sandbox pages with that template. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 03:34, 26 September 2014 (PDT)
::::::::No probs. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 07:49, 26 September 2014 (PDT)
 
== Honorable mentions section on pages ==
 
How about linking Tarek Fateh's tweet on the What people say page (only because he's well known) and maybe a mention of this on the About page [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam#Muslims]? Throwing out some ideas.
 
Here's another idea. What about a section called "Honorable Mentions" at the bottom of a page if it was linked in such a way? People would love to know that and I know that would make them look at the page a second time and have greater respect for it. This will definitely encourage people to make more permanent (like a link on their website or blog) and temporary links (such as a post on a forum) to that page. This will also encourage other famous people to make such mentions (its a snowball effect).
 
I've also thought of having some kind of notes at the bottom of a page if for example a former Muslim mentions it saying that he was influenced by that page. This kind of information is interesting to readers. We know that there arent too many such pages. Maybe we can start tracking these kinds of things somewhere and when there's a lot we can do something about it (like how we did with the "What people say" page). Or a "Page Facts" / "About this page" / "Trivia" / "Page Trivia" section at the bottom (it could be a right-aligned box too so its less instrusive) where we can mention interesting tidbits like this about a page. For example the Page Trivia could have ''"1. Famous person X linked to this page. 2. Former Muslim Y was influnced by this page and mentioned it in their testimony. 3. This page was ... [XYZ] (something else interesting about this page)."''
 
Definitely food for thought later on, if not now. Anyway whatever you think. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 18:05, 6 November 2014 (PST)
 
:Tarek Fatah is a critic of Islam. Everything he is known for, his activism, books, talks, and so on, is geared towards this. He has also been labelled an "Islamophobe" and has been likened to Robert Spencer. In some ways, he's probably more hated by Muslims than Robert, Ali, etc., because he self-identifies as a Muslim. So I don't think his tweet should be added to either page.
 
:About the trivia section at the bottom of pages, I'm against the idea as a whole (even before thinking of what those trivia sections will consist of). I think the idea, if implemented, would look odd. Some people may find it interesting, but it definitely wouldn't be professional or scholarly. And it's unnecessary clutter to pages that are already cluttered due to our (good) practice of referencing and heavily footnoting everything, using right aligned templates to link back to Core articles, etc. Wikipedia seems to agree; they limit back links and mentions in non-linkable media (scholarly journals, etc) to a box on the talk page of articles (e.g. see the page on Robert Spencer). Considering that Wikipedia uses some very unprofessional gimmicks (such as sometimes repeating key quotes in a larger font in a right aligned box), that's saying something. Think of broadsheets versus tabloids. We have the image of a broadsheet. That's what separates us from other similar sites. Resembling a tabloid may make it more interesting, but it drags the image of the site into the gutter. 
 
:When we actually consider the potential content of these trivia sections, I don't think their effect would be at all positive. This site is different to most sites critical of Islam because it appeals even to those who are neutral towards Islam, even some orthodox Muslims use it as a resources for chronology of the Qur'an, fake hadith list etc. (think back about four years and you'll remember telling me this was your ultimate aim; to one day go around the wiki and remove all opinions, right-wing nonsense, etc. and thankfully I think that has been achieved). Of course, there's still a long way to go, and many more "neutrals" and Muslims that need to be attracted to the site (critics will already use the site, so trying to attract them is like singing to the choir i.e. pretty pointless). So:
 
:1. '''"Famous person X linked to this page."'''
 
:These "famous people" will almost certainly be critics of Islam. It's great that they use this site. That's what it's here for, for people to use. But celebrating this fact is counter-productive. Most of them come with unwanted baggage, such as discriminatory views on immigration, unwavering support for a certain nation over the other (regardless of their individual actions), and so on. What they believe shouldn't affect how people treat what they say about Islam, but in the real world it does. And if the wiki celebrates their use of the site, it unloads all of their unwanted baggage onto it. If a neutral or Muslim reads that at the bottom of the page (or even on the talk page) the instant reaction would be, "Tarek Fatah/Pat Condell/whoever likes this page? Then it's Islamophobic rubbish. Goodbye." It will even effect those who link to us in forum posts, because when forummers visit the link to see his/her side of the argument, they will too most likely dismiss it just as easily.
 
:2. '''"Former Muslim Y was influenced by this page and mentioned it in their testimony"'''
 
:This will probably have the same effect as reading number 1. In addition to that, it reflects badly on the site and makes it look too agenda driven. The point is, this site is here to educate and provide facts. Nothing more and nothing less. This (proper facts etc.) will obviously cause quite a few Muslims to leave Islam, but it should remain just that; a side-effect of eduction and proper facts. The site mission now is to "provide an accurate and comprehensive resource on Islam," not to "provide facts in order to help Muslims leave Islam" (as I believe it once was many years ago). Retaining such attitudes will result in a regression of the site's status, rather than an evolution of it. A site that still thinks of itself as a place to "provide facts in order to help Muslims leave Islam" will never be taken seriously by anyone other than the choir. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 01:39, 7 November 2014 (PST)
::Ok thats fine. Well at least it was advertised to 51K followers so there's that. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 09:52, 7 November 2014 (PST)
 
== Translation of QHS:Corruption of Previous Scriptures ==
 
{{user|Damaskin}} sent an email saying he only wants to translate [[Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Corruption_of_Previous_Scriptures]] and not the whole series and I told thats most likely OK but I wanted to confirm with you. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 17:54, 10 November 2014 (PST)
:Oh yeah, that's cool. The QHS section is not like a series written by one person, so most of these QHS pages can definitely stand on their own. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 13:01, 12 November 2014 (PST)
::Cool I'll let him know. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 13:15, 13 November 2014 (PST)
 
== Correspondence with visitors ==
 
This is totally up to you. You're probably already busy but if you want, I can forward you any interesting inquiries we get and we can publish them and their response online for people to read. It should result in more traffic (people will love to read those emails) and more emails as well (which could be a problem too). You can respond in any way you like. I could forward only a few or all the ones. I had talked about this before but I couldn't find any security settings that would help two people check the same account easily without any issues.
 
We could also have another email address which you can make and we can have people writing to that address for inquiries. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 16:59, 11 November 2014 (PST)
:Hi Ax. What sorts of emails are they usually? I don't have too much time, but if you forwarded them to me I would try to answer the serious/important ones if you would like. I'm guessing you get a lot of trolling-type emails calling the site "Islamophobic". I think these can mostly be ignored, unless they include misconceptions that you and I can try to dispel. Email me if you want and we can discuss this more freely. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 13:20, 12 November 2014 (PST)
::Yea half of them are 'hate' mails that happen max of around once a month and even less. The frequency of all mails combined isnt too much since we dont make it easy for people to get that page (about, scroll down and hunt for the Contact link; as opposed to a straight 'contact us' link on every page which many sites have and that would make it easier for them). That was by design so we only get contacted on that address by people who really want to do so. Ok I'll forward you a few and continue this there. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 13:26, 13 November 2014 (PST)
 
== Changing Essays ==
 
[[The Rising Star of Incompetent Muslim Science]] would look better and the site would also give a better impression if the title was changed to something more nuetral and the language was modified. Do our current policies say essays should not be changed? I'm thinking they could be changed if the material can be edited to more closely follow the [[WikiIslam:Article Style and Content Guide|Style guidelines]]. And then the author can still keep their name in the article. Happy holidays. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 17:21, 24 December 2014 (PST)
:Hi Ax. Thanks. I had a very Merry Christmas. Hope you did too. Yeah, I don't see a problem with administrators copy-editing essays for the sake of style. WikiIslam's essays policy ATM says, "If needed, essays/op-eds may be edited for relevance, clarity and language issues." So it would fit in with that, and it's hardly the same as another editor coming along and trying to alter the message/subject/focus of the essay (i.e. Sunshine). [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 18:10, 27 December 2014 (PST)
::I've moved that page and all associated links to "[http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Quran_and_Modern_Science_%E2%80%93_Conflict_or_Conciliation Qur’an and Modern Science: Conflict or Conciliation?]", so at least the first issue is sorted. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 18:27, 27 December 2014 (PST)
:::Better than before, thanks. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 18:22, 28 December 2014 (PST)
 
== Spanish Template ==
 
Thanks for your message :)! I promise to complete the other pending articles on this week. Here goes:
 
{{Quote||Artículos en español}}


The images labeled as "Chinese" victims, are actually Madurese getting killed by Dayaks, or suspected "witches" getting killed in Banyuwangi. The people in those photos are all non-Chinese.


The original sources can be seen here-
{{Quote||Esta es una página índice para los artículos de WikiIslam en español.}}


http://www.fica.org/hr/lain/lain4.htm


http://www.fica.org/hr/ambon/ambon1/Sanggauledo1.html
{{Quote||Mapa del sitio - Use para navegar en WikiIslam y encontrar la información que necesita.}}


http://www.fica.org/hr/ambon/ambon1/Sanggauledo2.html


http://www.oocities.org/~budis1/article/head_hunter2.htm
[[User:Aelu|Aelu]] ([[User talk:Aelu|talk]]) 18:52, 10 January 2015 (PST)
:Thanks a lot. I'm now going to add Spanish to the sidebar on the left. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 02:13, 11 January 2015 (PST)


http://www.fica.org/hr/Sanggauledo.html
== Translations of textimonies ==


http://ceritaindonesia.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/dayak-vs-madura1.jpg
[http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Waterlily_-_Voormalige_Moslem] For example. We can have a template note at the top of each testimony saying:
:This is a translation of the original <nowiki>[[</nowiki>link|English testimony]].
Link can go to the English page. The English one can have a note at the bottom saying
:This testimony has been translated into <nowiki>[[</nowiki>link|Afrikaans]].  
That will be easier than putting it in the Infobox. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 01:25, 12 January 2015 (PST)


You can see that the Banyuwangi riots were not related to Muslims vs non-Muslims.
:Cool. I've made two templates now ([http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Template:Testimony-translation-afrikaans][http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Template:Testimony-translation-english]). We'll need to get the first one translated into Afrikaans. About the second (English) one; could you please add that as an optional parameter to ''template:apostate-top'' like you have with the ''source='' thing? It would look much better without it being separated by that giant gap (the gap is in the original one obviously to provide a little space between the "legal" or "informational" stuff and the actual content). [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 02:23, 12 January 2015 (PST)
::Done: [[Template:Apostate-top]] and [[Template:Apostate-top-afrikaans]]. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 07:30, 12 January 2015 (PST)
:::Awesome! Thanks, Ax! [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 11:42, 12 January 2015 (PST)


http://www.insideindonesia.org/weekly-articles/the-banyuwangi-murders
== Additional translation links for Russian articles ==


There IS real religious violence in Indonesia, like the images of the girl beheaded by Islamists in Sulawesi, but these other images are incorrect.
Looking back I think I didnt have the best idea to keep Russian articles linked different by saying "for other languages see the links on the left". It would have been better to keep them all in the same place (unified) at the bottom of the page like we say it for other languages. Oops. Oh well. If you agree maybe that can be fixed one day for all the translations. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 17:51, 7 February 2015 (PST)
:Yeah, I definitely agree. We should look to fixing that in the future. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 02:59, 10 February 2015 (PST)
::Ok. I'll add it to the tasks list. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 10:03, 10 February 2015 (PST)


These are the specific images which should be removed-
== Translation steps ==


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_17.jpg&filetimestamp=20110716082447&
I wonder if this section can be moved to the top or bottom [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Instructions_for_Translators#Steps_for_a_Translation] and expanded to be a good checklist of the stuff that needs to be done (taking stuff from what that page says but in shortened bullet form). This way the translators themselves can follow that checklist and make all the changes. There can be sub-bullets too like 1.1 or 1.a, 1.b.. or just bullets under an existing bullet (* and then ** will make it a sub-bullet). --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 10:12, 10 February 2015 (PST)
:I think the way the page is set up right now is good because it covers pretty much everything, and it does it in the right order, and even splits it up into bite-sized stages. So if translators actually read the page, they couldn't go wrong. However they'd have to actually read the thing in the first place. So yeah, maybe a "Summary" section at the top of that page (or maybe even putting it back [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Translations#Help_and_Guidelines here]?) would encourage that. I dunno. Maybe it will discourage new translators from ever reading the indepth part? Anyways, I'll try to write something up soon when I get time and we can see what it looks like. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 17:44, 10 February 2015 (PST)
::Cool. Either place would be good. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 18:17, 10 February 2015 (PST)


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e1.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145124&
== Shia hadith ==


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e2.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145136&
I dono if we discussed this before. But if i want to add Shia Hadith, where is the right place? [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 23:16, 14 February 2015 (PST)
:Hi Saggy. No we haven't discussed this before. And I don't think anyone has ever suggested/tried adding Shi'ite hadith to any pages before. I don't know how we would approach that. One thing we can't do is add Shi'ite hadith to pages with Sunni hadith or  even to pages that discuss mainstream (i.e. Sunni) Islam. Doing so would undermine the credibility of those pages (they will be dismissed out-of-hand by Muslims with something like "LOL they use Shia hadith. Shia aint Muslim XD".). Shi'ite's are a minority so criticism of their religion is not really that high on the importance factor, but if it was done, it would probably be best confined to their own dedicated pages (they could then be linked from the [[Shiites|Shi'ites]] hub page). [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 03:13, 15 February 2015 (PST)


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e3.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145149&
== Highlight in RC for unchecked edits ==


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e4.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145205&
I want to remove the Yellow and bold that comes for the unchecked edits. I think its too strong/annoying. http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Special:RecentChanges . What do you think? We could just have it in normal text.


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e5.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145219&
The yellow/bold creates some kind of pressure as if its urgent and has to be done right now which is not the case. So yea I think I'll remove that. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 05:05, 14 March 2015 (PDT)
:Yeah, totally agree. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 15:11, 14 March 2015 (PDT)
::Ok great. I got rid of it. It just looks like normal text now. -> http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Special:RecentChanges --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 15:27, 14 March 2015 (PDT)
:::Awesome. Looks much better. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 15:29, 14 March 2015 (PDT)
There's two commas in this one (after Daniel pipes):
::::I added the bold back but not the color so atleast there's some difference between review text and other stuff but not too strong. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 16:09, 22 March 2015 (PDT)
:{{external link|url= http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2010/09/defecation-torah-new-testament|title= Istinja' with the Torah and New Testament|publisher= |author= Daniel Pipes|date= Sep 21, 2010|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.danielpipes.org%2Fblog%2F2010%2F09%2Fdefecation-torah-new-testament&date=2015-03-14|deadurl=no}}


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e6.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145232&
And one comma in this one (after the name) that doesnt have a date in it:
:{{external link|url= http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2010/09/defecation-torah-new-testament|title= Istinja' with the Torah and New Testament|publisher= |author= Daniel Pipes|date= |archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.danielpipes.org%2Fblog%2F2010%2F09%2Fdefecation-torah-new-testament&date=2015-03-14|deadurl=no}}


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_19.jpg&filetimestamp=20110716082509&
There's probably more bugs in it that I dont know of. [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=Taurat&diff=111843&oldid=111842 There] I put the name in the 'link desc', just to make it work but it should really be in the Author field. Hopefully I'll fix it some day. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 16:43, 14 March 2015 (PDT)


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e7.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145244&
:::Oh okay. Actually, I think the fact that you can put miscellaneous text in the desc field makes this template perfectly usable. Because if an "author" name is ever needed in an external link, then by default the editor who adds that link should also be providing us with the article's publisher and publication date. When those three fields are filled, the template works as intended. It's like with our citeweb template. Just because it can be used with a single field filled, does not mean that it is allowed on WikiIslam. As stated on WikiIslam:Citing Sources, the minimum parameters that should be used are: url= | title= | author= | publisher= | date= | archiveurl= | deadurl=no/yes. I will edit the instructions on that template to let editors know. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 16:59, 14 March 2015 (PDT)
::::Yea sure it can be used if those fields are filled out. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 07:58, 15 March 2015 (PDT)


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e8.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145256&
== Translations completed ==


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_10.jpg&filetimestamp=20110716082327&
Spanish translations of [[WikiIslam:Sandbox/Quien matara a una persona (Corán 5:32)|If Anyone Slew a Person (Qur'an 5:32)]] and  [[WikiIslam:Sandbox/Falsos crímenes de odio anti-musulmán y otras mentiras|Fake Anti-Muslim Hate Crimes and Other Lies]]* are finished and ready to be checked.
<br /> *I don't know how to translate the names of the country template.
[[User:Aelu|Aelu]] ([[User talk:Aelu|talk]]) 09:29, 21 March 2015 (PDT)
:Hi Aelu. That's great. I'll check those pages as soon as I can. No need to worry about the names in the country templates. I'll do that myself (if you like, you can check the Diffs to see what I did). [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 23:14, 22 March 2015 (PDT)
::Thank you so much for your help, specially for translating the countries. [[User:Aelu|Aelu]] ([[User talk:Aelu|talk]]) 07:10, 27 March 2015 (PDT)
:::You're welcome! [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 11:03, 27 March 2015 (PDT)


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_13.jpg&filetimestamp=20110716082403&
::New spanish translations of [[WikiIslam:Sandbox:Versos coránicos malinterpretados|Misinterpreted Qur'anic Verses]] and [[WikiIslam:Sandbox/Pedofilia en el Corán|Pedophilia in the Qur'an]] are ready to be checked. [[User:Aelu|Aelu]] ([[User talk:Aelu|talk]]) 19:05, 8 May 2015 (PDT)


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_15.jpg&filetimestamp=20110716082425&
== Sunnah.com ==


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_17.jpg&filetimestamp=20110716082447&
What do you think about the reliability of sunnah.com? I havent looked into it. Their [http://sunnah.com/about About] page doesnt say much about who is behind the site etc. Its still a nice site though. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 17:59, 22 April 2015 (PDT)


http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=File:Indonesia_e9.jpeg&filetimestamp=20110430145309&
:I've never had a problem with it, but some people say they soften translations don't they? They even say on the About page that the text has gone through two stages of "cleaning". They mention one stage is correcting typos, but they leave you hanging on what that second stage is. However, it's an Islamic site so anything we use from there won't be accused of being "fake". So I think it's okay as a backup or when nothing better is available. We already use it for the hadith collections that are not on USC-MSA. Our FAQ says "The English translations of Al Tirmidhi, Al Nasa'i, and Ibn Majah are all taken from Sunnah.com." Obviously I archived every single page for each of those hadith collections and our templates link to these archives (this way they cannot delete or alter hadiths). It's come in quite handy for me actually. The set of Ibn Majah hadith they copy/pasted include the hadiths grading and I [[Responses_to_Apologetics_-_Muhammad_and_Aisha#There_is_1_hadith_that_says_Aisha_.22never_saw_the_private_parts_of_Muhammad.22|used it to debunk]] an apologetic argument against Muhammad's pedophilia and simultaneously pointed out how those who use this argument are knowingly propagating false information. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 03:37, 23 April 2015 (PDT)
::Ok. Yea ''"So I think it's okay as a backup or when nothing better is available."'' - I agree too. I will try to make an archive anytime I use it. That's pretty good information in that Aisha link, all referenced etc. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 18:40, 26 April 2015 (PDT)


Its because some idiots on internet forums in China heard what was going on in Indonesia in May 1998 with looting of Chinese stores and rapes, so when they looked up "Indonesia riots" on the internet, they got the wrong photos, and pasted these photos all over their forums. This is how these photos originally got mislabelled.
== Sandbox article on extremist violence ==


In Myanmar, some Islamists falsely took photos of Tsunami victims, earthquake victims in China, and of Tibetan protestors setting themselves on fire, and labelled them as Rohingya Muslims getting killed by Burmese Buddhists.  
I have a feeling you might not like [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Sandbox/Wartime_sexual_violence_by_Islamic_terrorists] but we can just use the references for the attacks and use them somewhere else. I think the term Rape Jihad should not be used or given much attention to so I changed the title. In any case its just a sandbox article and it has disclaimers at the top and its text can be used later for anything. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 05:49, 19 May 2015 (PDT)


http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-South-Central/2012/0803/Pakistan-s-extremists-whip-up-frenzy-over-Burma-s-Muslims
== BG sub domain ==


http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/12867/social-media-is-lying-to-you-about-burmas-muslim-cleansing/
You havent visited for a while! I hope everything is fine. Damaskin has been working hard to make the [http://bg.wikiislam.net/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%87%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0 BG WikiIslam sub-domain] after Claustrum set it up. He said its ready to be linked so I made the various changes. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 17:36, 28 June 2015 (PDT)


http://www.irrawaddy.org/rohingya/canadian-ngo-protests-rohingya-misinformation.html
== Translation of pagan origins of Islam ==


http://archive.thedailystar.net/beta2/news/where-lies-reign-supreme/
Hi, I translate the article "Pagan Origins of Islam" here in my sandbox : http://wikiislam.net/wiki/User:Maxime/Sandbox_1, if you can tell me if the article is good or to correct, thanks. --[[User:Maxime|Maxime]] ([[User talk:Maxime|talk]]) 02:57, 20 September 2015 (PDT)


http://www.globalresearch.ca/fake-photos-with-dead-bodies-in-media-reports-on-myanmar-conflict/5302994
== If Anyone Slew a Person (Qur'an 5:32) ==


http://tibet.net/2012/08/04/pak-extremists-exaggerating-violence-against-burmas-muslims-to-fund-own-agendas/
Is this page [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/If_Anyone_Slew_a_Person] good enough to be added to the [[WikiIslam:Translations#Articles_to_Translate]] list? It seems like its a popular page that people are looking for when there's a terrorist attack. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 11:07, 14 November 2015 (PST)


What happened here is not deliberate like what those Islamists did, but it still needs to be corrected. In fact you can create an article about fake images used by Islamists in the Rohingya conflict instead.[[User:Cleft|Cleft]] ([[User talk:Cleft|talk]]) 23:22, 10 August 2014 (PDT)
==Contribute please==
I have moved this article from wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_expeditions_of_Muhammad&oldid=782817488
to here (in case wiki deletes/censors it)
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_expeditions_of_Muhammad


:Cool. Thanks for that info. I will read through those links you provided and sort them out soon when I get time. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 01:04, 11 August 2014 (PDT)
Please contribute it and kindly help make it compatible with wikiislams wikicode--[[User:Bench|Bench]] ([[User talk:Bench|talk]]) 13:05, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
Bench
1,520

edits

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