Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring - Part One: Difference between revisions

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{{Quote||The meaning of the Almighty’s saying, ‘Until he reached the place of the setting of the sun he found it set in a spring of murky water,’ is as follows:<BR><BR>When the Almighty says, ‘Until he reached,’ He is addressing Zul-Qarnain. Concerning the verse, ‘the place of the setting of the sun he found it set in a spring of murky water,’ the people differed on how to pronounce that verse. Some of the people of Madina and Basra read it as ‘Hami’a spring,’ meaning that the sun sets in a spring that contains mud. While a group of the people of Medina and the majority of the people of Kufa read it as, ‘Hamiya spring’ meaning that the sun sets in a spring of warm water. The people of commentary have differed on the meaning of this depending on the way they read the verse.<ref name="Answering Islam"></ref><ref name="Al-Tabari">For the Arabic with vocalization marks (select the sura 18 and ayat 86): [http://quran.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=221&BookID=13&Page=1 here]</ref>}}
{{Quote||The meaning of the Almighty’s saying, ‘Until he reached the place of the setting of the sun he found it set in a spring of murky water,’ is as follows:<BR><BR>When the Almighty says, ‘Until he reached,’ He is addressing Zul-Qarnain. Concerning the verse, ‘the place of the setting of the sun he found it set in a spring of murky water,’ the people differed on how to pronounce that verse. Some of the people of Madina and Basra read it as ‘Hami’a spring,’ meaning that the sun sets in a spring that contains mud. While a group of the people of Medina and the majority of the people of Kufa read it as, ‘Hamiya spring’ meaning that the sun sets in a spring of warm water. The people of commentary have differed on the meaning of this depending on the way they read the verse.<ref name="Answering Islam"></ref><ref name="Al-Tabari">For the Arabic with vocalization marks (select the sura 18 and ayat 86): [http://quran.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=221&BookID=13&Page=1 here]</ref>}}


The end of the 3<sup>rd</sup> and 2<sup>nd</sup> from last sentences literally say, “In other words: it sets in a spring of muddy water” and, “That is to say that it sets in a spring of hot water”. Notice he omits wajada (“he found”) in these sentences. We can clearly see from al-Tabari’s commentary that it was understood by early Muslim communities that 18:86 meant that the sun actually sets in a spring. We can also imply from this that they understood the verse to say that Dhu’l Qarnayn reached the place where the sun sets.
The end of the 3<sup>rd</sup> and 2<sup>nd</sup> from last sentences literally say, “In other words: it sets in a spring of muddy water” and, “That is to say that it sets in a spring of hot water”. Notice he omits wajada (“he found”) in these sentences. His ensuing discussion reports the uncertainty as to which Arabic word was used to describe the spring (muddy or hot), incidentally revealing that the sun setting in some kind of spring was understood literally. These variant readings continue to be recited today, and translators take different choices between muddy, hot, or both.


Al-Tabari continues the same passage giving reports concerning the different interpretations of hamiatin. He even gives some claimed to be from Ibn ‘Abbas such as:
Al-Tabari continues the same passage giving reports concerning the different interpretations of hamiatin. He even gives some from Ibn ‘Abbas, such as:


{{Quote||I heard Sa’id bin Jubair say Ibn ‘Abbas had read it as “in a spring hamiatin”. He says, “the sun sets in black mud”. And others said “instead it disappears in a hot spring”.<ref>For the Arabic with vocalization marks (select the sura 18 and ayat 86): [http://quran.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=221&BookID=13&Page=1 here], comment 17563</ref>}}
{{Quote||Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-A'la narrated and said: Marwan ibn Mu'awiya narrated from Warqa, he said: I heard Sa’id bin Jubair say Ibn ‘Abbas had read this word as “in a spring hamiatin”. And he said, “the sun sets in black mud”.  
And others said instead “it disappears in a hot spring”.<ref>For the Arabic with vocalization marks (select the sura 18 and ayat 86): [http://quran.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=221&BookID=13&Page=1 here], comment 17563</ref>}}


The middle phrase is word for word, “And he says mud black, it sets in it, the sun”). It is also interesting that to this day, nobody knows which Arabic word was used to describe the spring (muddy or hot) in the original Arabic Qu’ran, and translators take different choices.
The phrase reported of ‘Ibn Abbas is word for word, “And he said mud black, it sets in it, the sun”). Abu Salih, another companion of Ibn ‘Abbas, made a very similar report narrated through another chain recorded by al-Farra (d. 822 CE) in his Ma'ani al-Qur'an regarding this verse:


Shamoun quotes from Al-Baydawi’s commentary on the Qur’an, ''The Secrets of Revelation and The Secrets of Interpretation'' (Asrar ut-tanzil wa Asrar ut-ta’wil; 13<sup>th</sup> century CE), which has the following concerning 18:86 (although in the previous sentence Al-Baydawi gives his own view that perhaps Dhu’l Qarnayn went to the ocean coast and only saw it like the sun set in a spring):
{{Quote||al-Farra narrated from Hibban, from al-Kalbi, from Abu Salih, from Ibn ‘Abbas "muddy". He said, "It sets in a black spring".<ref>al-Farra, Ma'ani al-Qur'an for verse 18:86 al-makhaba.org https://al-maktaba.org/book/23634/679</ref>}}


{{Quote||It was said that Ibn ‘Abbas found Mu’awiya reading it (as) hot. He told him, ‘It is muddy.’ Mu’awiya sent to Ka’b al-Ahbar and asked him, ‘Where does the sun set?’ He said in water and mud and there were some people. So he agreed with the statement of Ibn al-‘Abbas.}}
Al-Tabari's commentary for the 18:86 includes yet further reports such that Ibn ‘Abbas and another companion disagreed on whether the spring was hot or muddy. They sent to Ka'b al-Ahbar, who according to various accounts said, "As for the sun, it becomes hidden in tha'at" (which al-Tabari defines as mud), or he said, "It becomes hidden in black mud".


Their translation of the last two sentences is a loose summary of the rest of the commentary on 18:86. The first sentence is literally: “How do you find the sun setting?” He said, “In water and clay. Likewise we find in the Torah.”<ref>Al-Baydawi, Asrar ut-tanzil wa Asrar ut-ta’wil, p. 399 Beirut: Dar Al Jil, 1911 quoted in (trans.) [http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Shabir-Ally/science11.htm Science in the Quran/ Chapter 11: The Sun & Moon and Their Orbits] - Sam Shamoun, Answering Islam (''for the Arabic, click [http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=6&tSoraNo=18&tAyahNo=86&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=1 here]'')</ref>
We can clearly see from al-Tabari’s commentary that it was understood by early Muslim communities that 18:86 meant that the sun actually sets in a spring. We can also imply from this that they understood the verse to say that Dhul Qarnayn reached the place where the sun sets.


Shamoun also quotes the same work of al-Baydawi in which he gives this among various interpretations for 36:38:
Shamoun quotes from al-Baydawi’s commentary on the Quran, The Secrets of Revelation and The Secrets of Interpretation (Asrar ut-tanzil wa Asrar ut-ta’wil; 13th century CE) in which he gives this among various interpretations for 36:38:38:


{{Quote||For it has a cycle of three hundred and sixty sunrises and sunsets; it rises every morning from its resting-place and sets in a setting place, only to return to them the following year.<ref>al-Baydawi’s comments on S. 36:38 as translated and quoted by ‘Abd al-Fadi, Is the Qur’an Infallible?, p. 29, Villach: Light of Life, 1995 quoted in [http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Shabir-Ally/science11.htm Science in the Quran/ Chapter 11: The Sun & Moon and Their Orbits] - Sam Shamoun, Answering Islam (''for the Arabic, click [http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=6&tSoraNo=36&tAyahNo=38&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=1 here]'')</ref>}}
{{Quote||For it has a cycle of three hundred and sixty sunrises and sunsets; it rises every morning from its resting-place and sets in a setting place, only to return to them the following year.<ref>al-Baydawi’s comments on S. 36:38 as translated and quoted by ‘Abd al-Fadi, Is the Qur’an Infallible?, p. 29, Villach: Light of Life, 1995 quoted in [http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Shabir-Ally/science11.htm Science in the Quran/ Chapter 11: The Sun & Moon and Their Orbits] - Sam Shamoun, Answering Islam (''for the Arabic, click [http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=6&tSoraNo=36&tAyahNo=38&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=1 here]'')</ref>}}
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It has been known since 1890 thanks to Theodore Nöldeke that there is a very close similarity between the account in the Qur’an of [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Alexander Romance|Dhu’l Qarnayn and the Alexander Legend]]. This was written in Syriac, probably around 630 CE, but incorporates older traditions such as that of the iron gate built by Alexander to enclose Magog dating to at least the time of the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus in the 1<sup>st</sup> century CE<ref>Van Bladel 2007b op. cit. p.181 (See Flavius Josephus, The Wars of the Jews, Book VII, Chapter VII, Verse 4 and the same author's Antiquities of the Jews, Book I, Chapter VI, Verse 1)</ref> and journeys to the rising and setting place of the sun from the Epic of Gilgamesh.<ref>See Epic of Gilgamesh, [http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab9.htm Tablet IX] and [http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab1.htm Tablet I] (Van Bladel 2007b op. cit. p.176 & p.197, note 6)</ref>
It has been known since 1890 thanks to Theodore Nöldeke that there is a very close similarity between the account in the Qur’an of [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Alexander Romance|Dhu’l Qarnayn and the Alexander Legend]]. This was written in Syriac, probably around 630 CE, but incorporates older traditions such as that of the iron gate built by Alexander to enclose Magog dating to at least the time of the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus in the 1<sup>st</sup> century CE<ref>Van Bladel 2007b op. cit. p.181 (See Flavius Josephus, The Wars of the Jews, Book VII, Chapter VII, Verse 4 and the same author's Antiquities of the Jews, Book I, Chapter VI, Verse 1)</ref> and journeys to the rising and setting place of the sun from the Epic of Gilgamesh.<ref>See Epic of Gilgamesh, [http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab9.htm Tablet IX] and [http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/mesopotamian/gilgamesh/tab1.htm Tablet I] (Van Bladel 2007b op. cit. p.176 & p.197, note 6)</ref>


It is part of a larger collection of legends about Alexander the Great known as the Alexander Romance. The Alexander Legend begins with Alexander expressing his desire to explore the ends of the Earth. It then has Alexander saying that God has given him horns on his head and he asks for power over other kingdoms. After collecting seven thousand iron and brass workers from Egypt, he goes to the fetid sea at the end of the Earth. He makes some evildoers go to the shore of the fetid sea, and they die. He and his men go to the window of heaven into which the sun sets between the fetid sea and a bright sea (although it does not say that the sun actually sets into this sea). The place where the sun rises is over the sea and the people who live there must flee from it and hide in the sea. The story then describes how Alexander<ref>Alexander, ''not the sun, as was incorrectly translated'' by A. W. Budge according to Van Bladel (Van Bladel 2007b op. cit. p. 198, note 12)</ref> prostrates before God and travels through the heavens at night to the place where the sun rises. He then visits some mountains and the sources of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers. Next it has Alexander coming to some people who tell him about the Huns within the Northern mountains (Gog, Magog and other kings are listed). He offers to build an iron and brass gate to close up the breach between the mountains, does so and prophesises that God will destroy the gate at the end of the world and the Huns will go forth through it. Next there is a battle with the Persians and their allies after they were told of his gate. It then ends with Alexander worshiping in Jerusalem and his death in Alexandria.<ref>A. W. Budge (trans.), “A Christian Legend Concerning Alexander” in ''The History Of Alexander The Great Being The Syriac Version Of The Pseudo-Callisthenes'', pp. 144-158, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1889 (''[http://www.answering-islam.org/Books/Budge/alexander.htm translation quoted in full]'')</ref>
It is part of a larger collection of legends about Alexander the Great known as the Alexander Romance. The Alexander Legend begins with Alexander expressing his desire to explore the ends of the Earth. It then has Alexander saying that God has given him horns on his head and he asks for power over other kingdoms. After collecting seven thousand iron and brass workers from Egypt, he goes to the fetid sea at the end of the Earth. He makes some evildoers go to the shore of the fetid sea, and they die. He and his men go to the window of heaven into which the sun sets between the fetid sea and a bright sea (although it does not say that the sun actually sets into this sea). The place where the sun rises is over the sea and the people who live there must flee from it and hide in the sea. The story then describes how the sun<ref>Alexander prostrates and travels, not the sun, as was incorrectly translated by A. W. Budge according to Van Bladel, though others side with Budge's rendering (Van Bladel 2007b op. cit. p. 198, note 12)</ref> prostrates before God and travels through the heavens at night to the place where the sun rises. He then visits some mountains and the sources of the Euphrates and Tigris rivers. Next it has Alexander coming to some people who tell him about the Huns within the Northern mountains (Gog, Magog and other kings are listed). He offers to build an iron and brass gate to close up the breach between the mountains, does so and prophesises that God will destroy the gate at the end of the world and the Huns will go forth through it. Next there is a battle with the Persians and their allies after they were told of his gate. It then ends with Alexander worshiping in Jerusalem and his death in Alexandria.<ref>A. W. Budge (trans.), “A Christian Legend Concerning Alexander” in ''The History Of Alexander The Great Being The Syriac Version Of The Pseudo-Callisthenes'', pp. 144-158, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1889 (''[http://www.answering-islam.org/Books/Budge/alexander.htm translation quoted in full]'')</ref>


Kevin Van Bladel sums up the correspondence with the Qur’an passage in his recent article:
Kevin Van Bladel sums up the correspondence with the Qur’an passage in his recent article:
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