Aisha's Age: Difference between revisions

Aisha's Age (view source)

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→‎Seventh Argument: Asma's Age: More evidence from IslamQA and doubts about Asma's birth date

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 She [i.e. Asma (ra)] lived a hundred years and died in 73 or 74 AH." (Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb, Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalaaniy, Pg. 654, Arabic, Bab fi al-nisaa, al-Harf al-alif, Lucknow)}}
-Amjad’s objection to Sina’s analysis is similar to that of the previous argument.
+Shaykh Haddad challenges the accuracy of the information, thus casting doubt on Amjad’s source material.
-{{Quote|1=[http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/ayesha_age.htm Ali Sina]|2=When someone gets that old, people don't care too much about her exact age. It is very easy to say she was 100 years old when in fact she was only 90. The difference is not noticeable to the younger folks and 100 is a round figure. Assuming the Hadith is authentic, it could be an honest mistake. Since in those days people did not carry birth certificates, it is very much likely that the person who reported her age to be 100 did not know that she was 10 years older than Ayesha and did not sit to make the calculations and deductions. She was not an important person and it did not occur to anyone that 1300 years later it would become the subject of a controversy. This could be a genuine mistake by the narrator of the Hadith.}}
+{{Quote|1=[http://www.webcitation.org/67gTj2QC2 Gibril Haddad]|2=Well, Ibn Kathir based himself on Ibn Abi al-Zinad's assertion that she was ten years older than `A'isha, however, al-Dhahabi in Siyar A`lam al-Nubala' said there was a greater difference than 10 years between the two, up to 19, and he is more reliable here.
+Ibn Hajar reports in al-Isaba from Hisham ibn `Urwa, from his father, that Asma' did live 100 years, and from Abu Nu`aym al-Asbahani that "Asma' bint Abi Bakr was born 27 years before the Hijra, and she lived until the beginning of the year 74." None of this amounts to any proof for `A'isha's age whatsoever.}}
+It is only from al-Zinad that we have the 10 year age difference. Even from al-Zinad, who Amjad relies on, we have two isnads. In the 2nd report he gives a more ambiguous age difference of ten or so years (بعشر سنين أو نحوها).
-{{Quote|1={{Cite web quotebox|url= http://www.understanding-islam.com/discussions/sources-of-islam/a-refutation-of-your-analysis-of-ayesha-s-ra-age|title=  A 'Refutation' of Your Analysis of Ayesha's (ra) Age|publisher= understanding-islam.com|author= Moiz Amjad|date= |archiveurl=http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.understanding-islam.com%2Fdiscussions%2Fsources-of-islam%2Fa-refutation-of-your-analysis-of-ayesha-s-ra-age&date=2013-11-18 |deadurl=no}}|2=Once again, the author is only pointing out towards a possibility. It should be kept in mind that the author is trying to establish that Ayesha (ra) was nine years old at the time of her marriage with the Prophet (pbuh). The author should be reminded that pointing out mere possibilities of error in the given information would not serve his purpose. Obviously, contrary to what the author contends, it is also "Possible" that the information given in the given in the cited paragraph is correct.
+{{Quote|1=[https://islamqa.info/en/124483 IslamQA.info]|2=This report was narrated via two isnaads from al-Asma ‘i from ‘Abd ar-Rahmaan ibn Abi’z-Zinnaad.
-The author should also keep in mind that the target of my writings on the issue is not to "prove" that Ayesha (ra) was "X" years old at the time of the consummation of her marriage with the Prophet (pbuh). On the contrary, my objective was merely to show that the generally held view regarding Ayesha's (ra) age at the time of her marriage with the Prophet (pbuh) is not based upon contradiction-free information.}}
+The first isnaad was narrated by Ibn ‘Asaakir in Tareekh Dimashq (69/10). He said: Abu’l-Hasan ‘Ali ibn Ahmad al-Maaliki told us: Ahmad ibn ‘Abd al-Waahid as-Sulami told us: My grandfather Abu Bakr told us: Abu Muhammad ibn Zabr told us: Ahmad ibn Sa‘d ibn Ibraaheem az-Zuhri told us: Muhammad ibn Abi Safwaan told us: al-Asma‘i told us, that Ibn Abi’z-Zinnaad  said: … and he quoted the report.
-Apparently Amjad is not worried that his arguments all derive conflicting ages for Aisha, thus debunking each other.
+The second isnaad was narrated by Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr in al-Isti‘aab fi Ma‘rifat al-Ashaab (2/616): Ahmad ibn Qaasim told us: Muhammad ibn Mu‘aawiyah told us; Ibraaheem ibn Moosa ibn Jameel told us: Ismaa ‘eel ibn Ishaaq al-Qaadi told us: Nasr ibn ‘Ali told us: al-Asma‘i told us: Ibn Abi’z-Zinnaad told us: Asma’ bint Abi Bakr, <b>who was ten years or so</b> older than ‘Aa’ishah, said:…}}
-Shaykh Haddad also challenges the accuracy of the information, thus casting doubt on Amjad’s source material.
+IslamQA further point out the unreliability of al-Zinab, and criticise attempts to use his sole narration against the mass of evidence for the traditional age of Aisha at her marriage:
-{{Quote|1=[http://www.webcitation.org/67gTj2QC2 Gibril Haddad]|2=Well, Ibn Kathir based himself on Ibn Abi al-Zinad's assertion that she was ten years older than `A'isha, however, al-Dhahabi in Siyar A`lam al-Nubala' said there was a greater difference than 10 years between the two, up to 19, and he is more reliable here.
+{{Quote|1=[https://islamqa.info/en/124483 IslamQA.info]|2=Most of the scholars regarded ‘Abd ar-Rahmaan ibn Abi’z-Zinnaad himself as da‘eef (weak).}}
-Ibn Hajar reports in al-Isaba from Hisham ibn `Urwa, from his father, that Asma' did live 100 years, and from Abu Nu`aym al-Asbahani that "Asma' bint Abi Bakr was born 27 years before the Hijra, and she lived until the beginning of the year 74." None of this amounts to any proof for `A'isha's age whatsoever.}}
+In other parts of their article IslamQA cite alternative reports on when Asma was born (ten, six or five years before the prophet's mission began.
-Using inaccurate data, Amjad assumes Asma was older than Aisha by 10 years when a more reliable source says the age difference is up to 19 years. Taking this more reliable information calculates Aisha’s age at around nine years old, completely in accordance with the sahih hadiths where Aisha herself said she was nine years old.
+Using inaccurate data and an unreliable narrator, Amjad assumes Asma was older than Aisha by 10 years when a more reliable source says the age difference is up to 19 years. Taking this more reliable information calculates Aisha’s age at around nine years old at the time of her consummation even if we grant the traditional date of Asma's own birth, completely in accordance with the sahih hadiths where Aisha herself said she was nine years old.
 ===Eighth Argument: Tabari's Account===