Science and the Seven Earths: Difference between revisions

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→‎Seven Universes: Added a section on the Universe being split from Earth definition not matching modern science - and counters to some apologetic arguments from preachers like Zakir Naik. As well as a smaller section on the Earth being classed as a separate entity to the Universe (unlike other heavenly objects).

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 This is due to the Quran stating the nearest/lowest heaven is adorned with stars which cover the known visible universe (such as {{Quran|41|12}}), rather than any philological analysis and ignoring all historical context of the word, which has always meant a 'firmament', or solid layer in the sky to Islamic scholars.<ref>[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/13.2 ''Tafsir on Verse 13:2.''] Ibn Kathir. d. 1373. </ref> Using the term 'heavens/skies' was common to refer to this in pre-Islamic Christian literature too.<ref>''[https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783110794083/html?lang=en Creation and Contemplation: The Cosmology of the Qur'ān and Its Late Antique Background] (Studies in the History and Culture of the Middle East Book 47)''. Decharneux, Julien. 2023. (pp. 255 - 257). De Gruyter. </ref>
-However there are many problems with this as we will see below, '''with all verses using a form of the word samā/سَماء''' (whether translated as sky/skies or heaven/heavens).
+However there are many problems with this as we will see below, '''with all verses using a form of the word al-samā/سَماء''' (whether translated as the sky/skies or the heaven/heavens).
 ==== Gates and water of the universe ====
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 The Quran also has the Earth created before the heavens (universes) are created, while the heaven is 'smoke' (''see [[Quran and a Universe from Smoke]]''). Obviously the Earth cannot be created before the Universe is made:
 {{Quote|{{Quran|41|9-12}}|Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four Days, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance).
-Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient. Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days and inspired in each heaven its mandate; and We decked the nether heaven with lamps, and rendered it inviolable. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Knower.}}
+Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient. Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days and inspired in each heaven its mandate; and We decked the nether heaven with lamps, and rendered it inviolable. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Knower.}}Nor was the universe ever smoke.
 ==== The universe as a roof/ceiling ====
@@ Line 182: / Line 182: @@
 In reality, the night and day we experience is a feature of the earth's rotation on its axis and is only applicable to Earth itself. There is no sense in which the earth's night and day apply across the wider cosmos as it would need to to be able to substitute the word/modern concept 'universe' with heaven/heavens (samā).
 {{Quote|{{Quran|79|27-29}}|Is your creation more prodigious or that of the heaven He has built? He raised its vault and fashioned it, and <b>darkened its night</b>, and <b>brought forth its forenoon<b/>.}}
+==== The universe split from the Earth ====
+The ancient concept of the sky splitting from the Earth can be traced back to Mesopotamian<ref>''[https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/epic/hd_epic.htm Mesopotamian Creation Myths.]'' Ira Spar. 2009. Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History. The Met Musuem. </ref> and Egyptian<ref>''[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338646511_Skyscapes_Landscapes_and_the_drama_of_Proto-Indo-European_myth Skyscapes, Landscapes, and the drama of Proto-Indo-European myth.]'' John Grigsby PhD Synthesis. 2020.
+''The relevant section can be viewed [https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Egyptian-myth-of-the-creation-of-earth-and-sky-has-the-sky-Goddess-Nut-separated-from_fig4_338646511 here].''</ref> creation myths in which heaven was separated from earth. This myth which was wide-spread at the time of Islam's emergence, did not puzzle contemporary Muslims, as can be seen by the many classical tafsirs on this (and other relevant) verses.<ref>''[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/21.30 Tafsir Ibn Kathir on verse 21:30.]'' Ibn Kathir d 1373</ref><ref>''[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Jalal/21.30 Tafsir Al-Jalalayn on Verse 21:30]''. Al-Jalalayn/ al-Maḥalli and as-Suyuti. Published 1505.</ref>
+There is no scientific theory in which the much larger universe, (i.e. for context our home galaxy, the Milky Way, containing at least 100 billion much larger stars, and the observable universe containing at least 100 billion galaxies)<ref>''[https://exoplanets.nasa.gov/what-is-an-exoplanet/what-is-the-universe/ What is the universe?]'' NASA’s Astrophysics Division. NASA.</ref> was pulled apart from Earth. Instead current scientific theories support the belief it was formed from when the solar system settled into its current layout about 4.5 billion years ago (billions of years after the universe was created), with Earth specifically forming when gravity pulled swirling gas and dust particles of different sizes orbited the sun at slightly different speeds, allowing them to bump into each other and stick together. Eventually, they grew from tiny dust grains into boulders, then into larger “planetesimals”, with one eventually becoming the third planet from the Sun.<ref>''[https://news.uchicago.edu/explainer/formation-earth-and-moon-explained How the Earth and moon formed, explained.]'' Explainer Series. University of Chicago News. University of Chicago.</ref><ref>''[https://science.nasa.gov/earth/facts/ Facts about Earth.]'' Earth facts. NASA Science. NASA</ref>
+The word translated "joined together" is ratqan (رَتْقًا)<ref>[https://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000193.pdf Lane's Lexicon p. 1027 رَتْقًا]</ref> meaning closed up or sewn up, also used metaphorically in terms of reconciling people, but does not imply a homogenous mass or state, let alone a singularity. Mirroring this is the word fataqnāhumā<ref>[https://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume6/00000115.pdf Lane's Lexicon p. 2331 فتق]</ref> ("parted them"/"rent/clove them asunder"/), which means to slit, rent asunder, divide, unstitch.
+{{Quote|{{Quran|21|30}}|Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?}}Some Muslim apologists ''(such as Zakir Naik, as can be see in 3:27 of this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvG-606KqwU&t=120s YouTube video] - along with a response to him)'' have even claimed that this verse shows scientific foreknowledge of the Big Bang. His claim seems to be that the verse stating the skies and Earth "joined together/ratqan" is referring to the fact that during the big bang all the mass that went on to form the rest of the universe originated from the same point of singularity. There are many issues with this interpretation. These are discussed more in-depth in the page ''[[Quran and a Universe from Smoke]]'' and the main ''[[Scientific Errors in the Quran]]'' section''.'' But some of the obvious issues are:
+* If this is supposed to be the big bang itself as Naik claims (with the same mass/atoms from one singularity going on to form others) then this is does not match what actually happened, with the Earth not even existing for another 9.3 billion years after the Universe began.<ref>''[https://www.space.com/24054-how-old-is-the-universe.html How old is the universe?]'' Keith Cooper. 2023. Space.com.
+''The Universe is listed as ~13.8bn years old and the Earth ~4.5bn  which leaves Earth created ~9.4bn years ago.''</ref>
+* Therefore to match the essence of what he is saying you would have to essentially take a metaphorical view of the verse, which there appears to be no real justification for other than trying to avoid the scientific error of its literal meaning - no major tafsir does this before modern times. If God simply meant from the same matter, surely he could have said so.
+* If one holds that Q21:30 describes the big bang/substances of the heavens and Earth, the atomic particles that would later form the Earth would at the beginning would have to be separated from those that would go on to form everything else in the universe. This, however, bears no resemblance to modern scientific cosmology, wherein the material that forms the Earth passed through at least one earlier generation of stars,<ref>''[https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent/the-universe/stars/a-spectacular-stellar-finale/we-are-stardust We Are Stardust.]'' Part of Hall of the Universe. American Museum of Natural History. </ref> and more recently was part of various asteroids, comets and planetesimals orbiting the sun (which could all be described as being in or part of/making up the 'heavens') that sometimes collided and merged with each other, sometimes split apart, and gradually coalesced under gravity to form the Earth and other planets.
+* The language and context used, with the verse taking the word 'al-samā' (but plural ''al-samawati''), and 'al-ard' (the Earth), uses them in a way that does not match any other verses, despite having he definite 'al' particle implying they are a specific single thing. For example to say the sky can refer to the substance of the universe contradicts the verse Q79:27-29 which puts night and day as a property of the sky. The very next verse Quran 21:31 speaks of mountains being placed on the Earth, where here, 'the Earth' must mean the actual world, yet Naik is claiming 'the Earth/ 'al-ard' refers merely to atomic particles around the time of the big bang to the creation of our solar system.
+* He also completely ignores that this is referring to 'skies' plural, which must mean multiple universes to match the description of stars being in the closest universe in e.g. Q41:12, which is not supported by current scientific theory. In another speech he changes the definition of al-samā again, this time to mean the atmosphere of the Earth ''(see 16:11 of this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3ewI1YXc-c&t=1229s YouTube video])'', which contradicts too many verses (and the universe definition) to name, but many can be seen throughout this article.
+===== The Universe as a separate entity to Earth =====
+Verses in the Quran always describe the heaven and the Earth as separate entities, such as the above verse (Q21:30) describing them as split, with the verse stating that "We clove them" (dual pronoun 'huma'), not "We clove it", thereby indicating that the Earth and skies are distinct after the cloving. Along with things like the moon being described as in them ({{Quran|71|15-16}}), the clouds ''between'' the skies and the Earth ({{Quran|2|164}}), along with the stars being in the nearest sky ({{Quran|41|12}}) etc.
+The Quran never indicates that the Earth itself is simply within this lowest/nearest heaven along with the other planets, stars and heavenly objects. When in reality Earth is the 3rd planet in our Inner Solar System, of the Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy, which is part of the Virgo Supercluster within the wider Laniakea Supercluster, itself one of many,<ref>[https://aaa.org/2022/08/01/our-cosmic-address-where-is-earth-situated-in-the-univers ''Our Cosmic Address: Where is Earth Situated in the Universe?''] - Simone Lilavois - Amateur Astronomers Association, 1 August 2022</ref> making the description odd in light off modern science, but again matching the 'firmament torn from the Earth' view of antiquity.
 ==== Between the Universe and the Earth ====
 God is said to have dominion/sovereignty of the heavens and Earth and all that is ''between them (baynahum بينهم).''
 There is nothing between the Earth and the rest of the universe, so substituting the 'heavens' with the modern definition of the universe does not make sense here. Yet once again matches the ancient view of the heavens as 'firmaments' in the sky with space between them. This idea is also backed up in many hadith ''(see: [[Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Creation]]),'' such as {{Bukhari|9|93|608}}, describing Muhammad's alleged night journey through the heavens.
-{{Quote|{{Quran|5|18}}|Say the Jews and the Christians: "We are sons of God and beloved of Him." Say: "Why does He punish you then for your sins? No: You are only mortals, of His creation." He can punish whom He pleases and pardon whom He wills, <b>for God's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and all that lies between them,</b> and everything will go back to Him.}}Clouds are also distinctly said to be ''between'' the heavens and the Earth, again preventing the interpretation of the 'samā'/heavens/skies as our whole/visible universe.{{Quote|{{Quran|2|164}}|Indeed in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day, and the ships that sail at sea with profit to men, and the water that Allah sends down from the sky—with which He revives the earth after its death, and scatters therein every kind of animal—and the changing of the winds, <b>and the clouds disposed between the sky (samā) and the earth,</b> there are surely signs for a people who exercise their reason.}}
+{{Quote|{{Quran|5|18}}|Say the Jews and the Christians: "We are sons of God and beloved of Him." Say: "Why does He punish you then for your sins? No: You are only mortals, of His creation." He can punish whom He pleases and pardon whom He wills, <b>for God's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and all that lies between them,</b> and everything will go back to Him.}}
+{{Quote|{{Quran|50|38}}|And verily We created <b>the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them,</b> in six Days, and naught of weariness touched Us.}}
+Clouds are also distinctly said to be ''between'' the heavens and the Earth, again preventing the interpretation of the 'samā'/heavens/skies as our whole/visible universe.{{Quote|{{Quran|2|164}}|Indeed in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day, and the ships that sail at sea with profit to men, and the water that Allah sends down from the sky—with which He revives the earth after its death, and scatters therein every kind of animal—and the changing of the winds, <b>and the clouds disposed between the sky (samā) and the earth,</b> there are surely signs for a people who exercise their reason.}}
 ====  ==See Also==