Historical Errors in the Quran: Difference between revisions

Historical Errors in the Quran (view source)

Revision as of 18:08, 8 March 2024

6,400 bytes added , 8 March

→‎Sodom and Gomorrah being located near Mecca and Medina: Added in a small section on the verse about The Romans being defeated in a nearby land and the questions that has raised some academics.

[unchecked revision]

CPO675

398

edits

@@ Line 241: / Line 241: @@
 This makes the Quran's claim he had the greatest kingdom not to be bestowed on anyone after him extremely implausible. Especially in light of the much larger empires covering huge portions of the world that came after, such as the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire British Empire], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_colonial_empire#Second_French_colonial_empire_(post-1830) French Empire], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire Mongol Empire], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Caliphate Umayyad Caliphate], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire Russian Empire], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing_dynasty Qing Dynasty], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate Abbasid Caliphate], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Empire Spanish Empire], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire Ottoman Empire,] etc. whom we have far more evidence for.
+== Regarding the Traditional Historical Account of the Quran's Origins ==
+Modern Academic Scholarship has questioned the traditional Islamic account (from the sirah (biographies), tafsirs (commentaries) and hadith (sayings/traditions of the prophet), which were recorded far later than the time of revelation) of the Quran's creation to varying degrees. While these are heavily debated in academia, those scholars who propose the largest differences are roughly categorised as the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_school_of_Islamic_studies Revisionist school of Islamic studies]. While these are not typical historical errors in the sense of the Quran contradicting historical fact, they do undermine the reliability of both Sunni and Shia traditions. Some of their issue's with the traditional account, particularly around the area of preaching are mentioned below.
+=== Sodom and Gomorrah being located near Mecca and Medina ===
+The prophet Lūṭ,/(Biblical 'Lot') is a Jewish prophet also mentioned in the Bible as well as the Qur'an, who warns the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (סְדֹם (''Səḏōm'') and עֲמֹרָה (''<nowiki/>'Ămōrā'')) of imminent destruction if they do not repent their sinful ways, who do not and so are quickly destroyed by God (as well as Admah, Zeboiim and Zoar (Bela) in the Bible, making up the five "cities of the plain"). These are believed to be located in North-West Arabia<ref>[https://www.britannica.com/place/Sodom-and-Gomorrah ''Sodom and Gomorrah.''] Britannica Entry. 2023.</ref> for example, near the "[https://www.lonelyplanet.com/israel/sodom/attractions/lot-s-wife/a/poi-sig/1445578/1332029 Lot's Wife]" pillar of salt, on Mount Sodom, Israel (as in the biblical account his wife is turned into a pillar of salt), and placing Gomorrah located near the southern end of the Dead Sea, south of the peninsula of Al-Lisan.<ref>''[https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/term/x101699 Gomorrah.]'' The British Museum Entry.</ref>
+Traditional Islamic scholars have seemingly agreed with the placement in Northern Arabia too, as Patricia Crone notes in her 2008 article ''[https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/mohammed_3866jsp/ What do we actually know about Muhammad?]''<nowiki/>'...''the Qur'an twice describes its opponents as living in the site of a vanished nation, that is to say a town destroyed by God for its sins. There were many such ruined sites in northwest Arabia. The prophet frequently tells his opponents to consider their significance and on one occasion remarks, with reference to the remains of Lot's people, that "you pass by them in the morning and in the evening". This takes us to somewhere in the Dead Sea region. Respect for the traditional account has prevailed to such an extent among modern historians that the first two points have passed unnoticed until quite recently, while the third has been ignored. The exegetes said that the Quraysh passed by Lot's remains on their annual journeys to Syria, but the only way in which one can pass by a place in the morning and the evening is evidently by living somewhere in the vicinity.''<nowiki/>'<ref>[https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/mohammed_3866jsp/ What do we actually know about Mohammed?] Patricia Crone. 2008. opendemocracy.net</ref>{{Quote|{{Quran|15|74-77}}|and We made its topmost part its nethermost, and rained on them stones of shale.
+There are indeed signs in that for the percipient.
+<b>This (city) lies on a road that still survives,</b>
+and there is indeed a sign in that for the faithful.}}{{Quote|{{Quran|37|133-138}}|And indeed, <b>Lot</b> was among the messengers.
+[So mention] when We saved him and his family, all,
+Then We destroyed the others.
+<b>And indeed, you pass by them in the morning And at night.</b>
+Then will you not use reason?}}
+==== In relation to other cities ====
+The following verse also mentions the destruction of other towns from previous prophets with Hūd who preached to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BF%C4%80d ʿĀd] and Ṣāliḥ to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thamud Thamūd]. ʿĀd and Thamūd are associated with northern and mid- Arabia, but it is only (the ruins of) the people of Lūṭ (Lot), located much further near the Dead Sea, which are stated as being 'not far from you'. A simple reading of this would imply that ʿĀd and Thamūd (and therefore the Arabian peninsula), were further away than the Dead Sea from this verse's initial preaching/audience.
+{{Quote|{{Quran|11|89}}|O my people, do not let your defiance toward me lead you to be visited by the like of what was visited on the people of Noah, or the people of Hūd, or the people of Ṣāliḥ, <b>and the people of Lot are not distant from you.</b>}}
+So the claim is that for this to make sense to those being spoken to at the time of revelation, this would place at least part of Muhammad's preaching in that vicinity (as many in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_school_of_Islamic_studies Revisionist school of Islamic Studies] do), rather than strictly in Mecca and Medina where orthodox Islamic views found in the biographies and hadith place him.
+=== The Romans in a nearby land ===
+The Quran claims that the Romans (Byzantines) have been defeated in the nearest (part of) the land.
+{{Quote|{{Quran|30|2-3}}|The Byzantines have been defeated in the nearest land. But they, after their defeat, will overcome.}}
+To be notable enough to have gained a mention in the Quran, this could refer to large scale defeats by the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasanian_conquest_of_Jerusalem Persians at Jerusalem in 614 CE] or [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antioch_(613) Damascus in 613 CE,] and many other battles in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine%E2%80%93Sasanian_War_of_602%E2%80%93628 Byzantine-Sasanian War of 602-628], which primarily took place in Northern Arabia/Africa/Mesopotamia. But neither of these locations can be considered to be “nearest” land to Mecca or Medina, which are both hundreds of miles away.<ref>''[https://www.britannica.com/place/Byzantine-Empire Byzantine Empire.]'' Historical empire, Eurasia. Geography & Travel. Britannica Entry ''(this page shows the map of the empire in Northern Arabia, where you can see the lowest border is hundreds of miles from Medina, and even more from Mecca)''
+</ref> Leaving a site much further North the more fitting to this verse.
 == External Links ==