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Islamic Views on the Shape of the Earth: Difference between revisions
Helpful discovery on the true meaning of the consensus claimed by Ibn Taymiyyah. Also removed a hadith which is too easy to interpret as the local time of day where a specific event takes place.
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Lightyears (talk | contribs) (Helpful discovery on the true meaning of the consensus claimed by Ibn Taymiyyah. Also removed a hadith which is too easy to interpret as the local time of day where a specific event takes place.) |
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Similarly Surah 50 begins with the Arabic letter Qaf, which Scott Noegel and Brannon Wheeler (2010) note many Muslim exegetes take to refer to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Qaf Mount. Qaf] ''(Q 50:1) as a “world mountain,” which surrounds the earth and holds up the sky, thus connecting the heavens and the earth.''<ref>Noegel, Scott B.; Wheeler, Brannon M.. ''The A to Z of Prophets in Islam and Judaism (The A to Z Guide Series Book 176).'' 2010. pp 68 (Kindle Edition pp. 148). See under a section titled "Cosmology and Cosmogony" pp. 67-68: | Similarly Surah 50 begins with the Arabic letter Qaf, which Scott Noegel and Brannon Wheeler (2010) note many Muslim exegetes take to refer to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Qaf Mount. Qaf] ''(Q 50:1) as a “world mountain,” which surrounds the earth and holds up the sky, thus connecting the heavens and the earth.''<ref>Noegel, Scott B.; Wheeler, Brannon M.. ''The A to Z of Prophets in Islam and Judaism (The A to Z Guide Series Book 176).'' 2010. pp 68 (Kindle Edition pp. 148). See under a section titled "Cosmology and Cosmogony" pp. 67-68: | ||
''Much like the classical Greek conception, the earth or the middle realm of the cosmos is envisioned as a flat disc surrounded by the world ocean on all sides. The Quran describes the earth as flat and spread out (Q 71:19), wide and expansive (Q 29:56). There are points on the earth that serve as conduits or points of contact with the lower realms (pits, caves, water sources) and the upper realms (mountains, trees, high buildings). Muslim exegetes describe '''Mt. Qaf (Q 50:1)''' as a "world mountain," which surrounds the earth and holds up the sky, thus connecting the heavens and the earth.'' | ''Much like the classical Greek conception, the earth or the middle realm of the cosmos is envisioned as a flat disc surrounded by the world ocean on all sides. The Quran describes the earth as flat and spread out (Q 71:19), wide and expansive (Q 29:56). There are points on the earth that serve as conduits or points of contact with the lower realms (pits, caves, water sources) and the upper realms (mountains, trees, high buildings). Muslim exegetes describe '''Mt. Qaf (Q 50:1)''' as a "world mountain," which surrounds the earth and holds up the sky, thus connecting the heavens and the earth.''</ref> | ||
This view is found even in the earliest surviving Tafsir, that of Muqatil ibn Suliman<ref>Muqatil ibn Suliman's tafsir on verses [https://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=67&tSoraNo=50&tAyahNo=1&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=1 50:1] and [https://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=67&tSoraNo=18&tAyahNo=85&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=1 18:86] (Arabic)</ref> as well as al-Tabari's<ref>Tafsir al-Tabari on verse [https://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=67&tSoraNo=50&tAyahNo=1&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=1 50:1] (Arabic)</ref> and others. This (a mountain that surrounds the world) is of course only possible on a flat Earth. It was even associated with the mythical city of “Jabalq,” allegedly to be located in the extreme east or west, at the edges of the earth.<ref>Noegel, Scott B.; Wheeler, Brannon M.. ''The A to Z of Prophets in Islam and Judaism (The A to Z Guide Series Book 176)''. 2010. (pp. 271-272). Scarecrow Press. Kindle Edition. | |||
''The Arab geographer Yaqut describes Qaf as a mountain that encompasses and encloses the earth. It is made out of blue or green crystal, and all mountains in the world are tributaries of Qaf. Mt. Qaf is associated with the city of “Jabalq,” which can be read also as “Mt. Qaf” [Ar. Jabal-Qaf] in Arabic. This city is supposed to be located in the extreme east or west, at the edges of the earth. Qaf is also linked to the mountain on which Adam was supposed to have stood and peered into heaven after his expulsion from the Garden of Eden.''</ref> | ''The Arab geographer Yaqut describes Qaf as a mountain that encompasses and encloses the earth. It is made out of blue or green crystal, and all mountains in the world are tributaries of Qaf. Mt. Qaf is associated with the city of “Jabalq,” which can be read also as “Mt. Qaf” [Ar. Jabal-Qaf] in Arabic. This city is supposed to be located in the extreme east or west, at the edges of the earth. Qaf is also linked to the mountain on which Adam was supposed to have stood and peered into heaven after his expulsion from the Garden of Eden.''</ref> | ||
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===Ibn Taymiyyah (d.1328)=== | ===Ibn Taymiyyah (d.1328)=== | ||
In one oft-cited work<ref name="IslamQAarticle"></ref>, [[Ibn Taymiyyah]] (d. 728 AH / 1328 CE) references Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al Munadi as saying that the scholars from the second level of the companions of Imam Ahmad (d. 241 AH / 855 CE) – i.e. the early Hanbalis – maintained there was consensus among the scholars that both heaven and Earth are balls, the | In one oft-cited work<ref name="IslamQAarticle"></ref>, [[Ibn Taymiyyah]] (d. 728 AH / 1328 CE) references Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al Munadi as saying that the scholars from the second level of the companions of Imam Ahmad (d. 241 AH / 855 CE) – i.e. the early Hanbalis – maintained that there was consensus among the scholars that both heaven and Earth are balls, giving astronomical reasoning for both. In fact, it has been established that this refers to a consensus among astronomical scholars, as almost the exact same wording appears in Muslim astronomical works by Ahmad ibn Rustah (d. 913) and Ibn Kathīr al-Farghānī (d. 861) to describe the agreement and reasoning among astronomical scholars, not the agreement of Muslim scholars in general ([https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/1l4qi4b/reexamining_the_origins_of_ibn_almunadis_quote_on/ see here]). | ||
Moreover, this evidence does not help determine earlier beliefs, since from the 8th century CE onwards, Muslims were using Greek astronomical scholarship, which had already come to learn of the Earth's spherical form (see above). | |||
In another instance<ref>For the full chapter in Arabic see [https://ar.wikisource.org/wiki/مجموع_الفتاوى/المجلد_السادس/سئل_عن_رجلين_تنازعا_في_كيفية_السماء_والأرض Wikisource.org], and for someone's English translation for most of the relevant parts see [http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=6&Topic=1859 Salafitalk forum]</ref>, Ibn Taymiyyah, answering a question about the shape of the heavens and Earth, cites Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al Munadi (a second time), Abu’l-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi (d. 597 AH / 1201 CE), and Ibn Hazm (d. 456 AH / 1064 CE) as saying that there is a consensus that the heavens are round. In this instance, Ibn Taymiyyah makes no mention of the shape of the Earth. He further mentions that these authorities have provided evidence for the shape of the heavens from the Qur'an, sunnah, and narrations from the companions (sahabah) and second generation. | In another instance<ref>For the full chapter in Arabic see [https://ar.wikisource.org/wiki/مجموع_الفتاوى/المجلد_السادس/سئل_عن_رجلين_تنازعا_في_كيفية_السماء_والأرض Wikisource.org], and for someone's English translation for most of the relevant parts see [http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=6&Topic=1859 Salafitalk forum]</ref>, Ibn Taymiyyah, answering a question about the shape of the heavens and Earth, cites Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al Munadi (a second time), Abu’l-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi (d. 597 AH / 1201 CE), and Ibn Hazm (d. 456 AH / 1064 CE) as saying that there is a consensus that the heavens are round. In this instance, Ibn Taymiyyah makes no mention of the shape of the Earth. He further mentions that these authorities have provided evidence for the shape of the heavens from the Qur'an, sunnah, and narrations from the companions (sahabah) and second generation. | ||
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Ibn Taymiyyah proceeds to directly give this evidence for the round shapes of the heavens from the Qur'an, sunnah, and narrations from the early Muslims. Here, he argues that a round heavens and Earth is supported by what specialists on tafsir and language have said about certain words in the Qur'an. | Ibn Taymiyyah proceeds to directly give this evidence for the round shapes of the heavens from the Qur'an, sunnah, and narrations from the early Muslims. Here, he argues that a round heavens and Earth is supported by what specialists on tafsir and language have said about certain words in the Qur'an. | ||
The Qur'an verses cited by Ibn Taymiyyah in support of the round shape of the heavens are {{Quran|21|33}}, {{Quran|36|40}}, {{Quran|39|5}}, and {{Quran|67|5}}). These evidences are, however, indirect, and rely on what Ibn Taymiyyah and those he references argue is implied by their extrapolations on the | The Qur'an verses cited by Ibn Taymiyyah in support of the round shape of the heavens are {{Quran|21|33}}, {{Quran|36|40}}, {{Quran|39|5}}, and {{Quran|67|5}}). These evidences are, however, indirect, and rely on what Ibn Taymiyyah and those he references argue is implied by their extrapolations on the linguistic nuances of the verses discussed. The solitary piece of direct evidence that Ibn Taymiyyah brings from the companions about the round shape of the heavens is a narration where Ibn 'Abbas and others comment on {{Quran|36|40}}, which describes the heavenly bodies [[Geocentrism and the Quran|swimming in a falak]] (rounded course): | ||
{{Quote|1=[https://tafsir.app/ibn-katheer/36/40 Ibn Kathir 36:40]; see also: [https://tafsir.app/tabari/36/40 al-Tabari 36:40]|2=فِي فَلْكَة كَفَلْكَةِ الْمِغْزَل | {{Quote|1=[https://tafsir.app/ibn-katheer/36/40 Ibn Kathir 36:40]; see also: [https://tafsir.app/tabari/36/40 al-Tabari 36:40]|2=فِي فَلْكَة كَفَلْكَةِ الْمِغْزَل | ||
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===Ibn Kathir (d. 1373)=== | ===Ibn Kathir (d. 1373)=== | ||
Ibn Kathir says the heavens are a dome or roof or like the floors of a building over the Earth which is its foundation in his tafsir for verses [http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-Al-Baqara/The-Beginning-of-the-Creation 2:29], [http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-Ar-Rad/Clarifying-Allahs-Perfect-Abi--- 13:2], [http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-Al-Anbiya/In-everything-there-is-a-Sign---- 21:32], [http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-Ya-Seen/Among-the-Signs-of-the-Might-a--- 36:38], and [http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-Fussilat/Some-Details-of-the-Creation-o--- 41:9-12]. It is also clear like those before him he is directly aware of astronomers theories. | Ibn Kathir says the heavens are a dome or roof or like the floors of a building over the Earth which is its foundation in his tafsir for verses [http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-Al-Baqara/The-Beginning-of-the-Creation 2:29], [http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-Ar-Rad/Clarifying-Allahs-Perfect-Abi--- 13:2], [http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-Al-Anbiya/In-everything-there-is-a-Sign---- 21:32], [http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-Ya-Seen/Among-the-Signs-of-the-Might-a--- 36:38], and [http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-Fussilat/Some-Details-of-the-Creation-o--- 41:9-12]. It is also clear that like those before him, he is directly aware of astronomers' theories. | ||
{{Quote|[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/36.37 Tafsir Ibn Kathir for Quran 36:38]|(on its fixed course for a term (appointed). ) (The first view) is that it refers to its fixed course of location, which is beneath the Throne, beyond the earth in that direction. Wherever it goes, it is beneath the Throne, it and all of creation, <b>because the Throne is the roof of creation and it is not a sphere as many astronomers claim.</b> Rather it is a dome supported by legs or pillars, carried by the angels, and it is above the universe, above the heads of people. When the sun is at its zenith at noon, it is in its closest position to Throne, and when it runs in its fourth orbit at the opposite point to its zenith, at midnight, it is in its furthest position ...}} | {{Quote|[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/36.37 Tafsir Ibn Kathir for Quran 36:38]|(on its fixed course for a term (appointed). ) (The first view) is that it refers to its fixed course of location, which is beneath the Throne, beyond the earth in that direction. Wherever it goes, it is beneath the Throne, it and all of creation, <b>because the Throne is the roof of creation and it is not a sphere as many astronomers claim.</b> Rather it is a dome supported by legs or pillars, carried by the angels, and it is above the universe, above the heads of people. When the sun is at its zenith at noon, it is in its closest position to Throne, and when it runs in its fourth orbit at the opposite point to its zenith, at midnight, it is in its furthest position ...}} | ||
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Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?}}Today, it is sometimes advanced that the word "Merging" here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon, it is then argued, can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day and from day to night. | Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?}}Today, it is sometimes advanced that the word "Merging" here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon, it is then argued, can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day and from day to night. | ||
However, every person who ever | However, every person who has ever seen the sun setting and rising, including those who believed in a flat Earth, understood that the transition from day to night and vice versa was a gradual and not sudden one. Therefore, such an argument fails to demonstrate anything about the author's belief about the shape of the Earth. | ||
====39:5 - night and day wrapped over each other==== | ====39:5 - night and day wrapped over each other==== | ||