Quranism: Difference between revisions

→‎Other verses: Added some more Quran verses stating to obey 'God and his messenger'. As well as interesting additional point on the change of this idea throughout the Quran with it only appearing in later Medinian verses, and provided an academic quote for this.
[checked revision][pending revision]
(→‎Other verses: Added some more Quran verses stating to obey 'God and his messenger'. As well as interesting additional point on the change of this idea throughout the Quran with it only appearing in later Medinian verses, and provided an academic quote for this.)
 
(3 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown)
Line 43: Line 43:


===Other verses===
===Other verses===
 
{{Quote|{{Quran|4|59}}|O believers! Obey Allah <b>and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. Should you disagree on anything, then refer it to Allah and His Messenger,</b> if you ˹truly˺ believe in Allah and the Last Day. This is the best and fairest resolution.}}{{Quote|{{Quran|9|71}}|But the faithful, men and women, are comrades of one another: they bid what is right and forbid what is wrong and maintain the prayer, give the zakat, <b>and obey Allah and His Apostle.</b> It is they to whom Allah will soon grant His mercy. Indeed Allah is all-mighty, all-wise.}}{{Quote|{{Quran|16|44}}|(We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; '''that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them''', and that they may give thought.}}  
{{Quote|{{Quran|16|44}}|(We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; '''that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them''', and that they may give thought.}}  
The message (Qur'an) is explained and elaborated upon by the Prophet. Preserving the message (Qur'an) also requires preserving the Sunnah which explains the message, as the previous verse states.
The message (Qur'an) is explained and elaborated upon by the Prophet. Preserving the message (Qur'an) also requires preserving the Sunnah which explains the message, as the previous verse states.


Line 121: Line 120:
=== Verses that have no meaning and/or make no sense ===
=== Verses that have no meaning and/or make no sense ===
Many verses lack any clear meaning without further context, a few (of many) are given below. For example it is impossible to know what the following verses are talking about by themselves (tafsirs generally link them to angels, though the third verse is sometimes also linked to humans reciting the Quran).<ref>''[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Jalal/37.1 Tafsir Jalalayn on verse 31:1].'' Al Jalalayn / Jalal ad-Din al-Maḥalli and Jalal ad-Din as-Suyuti. Published in 1505.</ref><ref>''[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/37.1 Tafsir Ibn Kathir on Verse 37:1-5]''. Ibn Kathir d 1373.</ref>   
Many verses lack any clear meaning without further context, a few (of many) are given below. For example it is impossible to know what the following verses are talking about by themselves (tafsirs generally link them to angels, though the third verse is sometimes also linked to humans reciting the Quran).<ref>''[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Jalal/37.1 Tafsir Jalalayn on verse 31:1].'' Al Jalalayn / Jalal ad-Din al-Maḥalli and Jalal ad-Din as-Suyuti. Published in 1505.</ref><ref>''[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/37.1 Tafsir Ibn Kathir on Verse 37:1-5]''. Ibn Kathir d 1373.</ref>   
{{Quote|{{Quran|37|1-4}}|“By those ranged in ranks. Then those who drive away with reproof. And those who recite a reminder. Lo! Your Lord is surely One.”}}
{{Quote|{{Quran|37|1-4}}|“By those ranged in ranks.  
Then those who drive away with reproof.  
And those who recite a reminder.  
Lo! Your Lord is surely One.”}}
Similarly the versus below are often given fanciful/mythological explanations by commentators, far beyond would ever be possible to gather from the Quran itself:<ref>[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/52.1 ''Tafsir Ibn Kathir on Verse 52:1-16''.] Ibn Kathir d. 1373.</ref> <ref>''[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Jalal/52.4 Tafsir Jalalayn on verse 52:4.]'' Al Jalalayn / Jalal ad-Din al-Maḥalli and Jalal ad-Din as-Suyuti. Published in 1505.</ref>
Similarly the versus below are often given fanciful/mythological explanations by commentators, far beyond would ever be possible to gather from the Quran itself:<ref>[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/52.1 ''Tafsir Ibn Kathir on Verse 52:1-16''.] Ibn Kathir d. 1373.</ref> <ref>''[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Jalal/52.4 Tafsir Jalalayn on verse 52:4.]'' Al Jalalayn / Jalal ad-Din al-Maḥalli and Jalal ad-Din as-Suyuti. Published in 1505.</ref>
{{Quote|{{Quran|52|1-4}}|By the mountain, And a book inscribed, In parchment spread open, And the frequented house}}
{{Quote|{{Quran|52|1-4}}|By the mountain,  
And again:
And a book inscribed,  
{{Quote|{{Quran|79|1-5}}|By those who extract violently, And those who draw out gently, by those that swim serenely, and those that outstrip suddenly, And those who glide swimming, And those who race each other (in) a race, by those that direct an affair!}}
In parchment spread open,  
And the frequented house}}
And again.
{{Quote|{{Quran|79|1-5}}|By those who extract violently, And those who draw out gently,  
by those that swim serenely,  
and those that outstrip suddenly,  
And those who glide swimming,
And those who race each other (in) a race,  
by those that direct an affair!}}
And.
 
{{Quote|{{Quran|77|1-4}}|I CALL TO WITNESS those who are sent consecutively,
And those that strike violently,
And those that revive by quickening,
And those that distinguish distinctly,}}
 
And.
 
{{Quote|{{Quran|51|1-4}}|By oath of those which carry away while dispersing.
Then by oath of those which carry the burdens.
Then by oath of those which move with ease.
Then by oath of those which distribute by the command.}}
 
As well as (see the expansive explanation in Tafsir Al-Jalalayn).<ref>[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Jalal/38.34 ''Tafsir Al-Jalalayn on Verse 34:38.''] Jalal al-Din al-Mahalli (d. 864 ah / 1459 ce) and Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti (d. 911 ah / 1505 ce)</ref>
 
{{Quote|{{Quran|38|34}}|And We certainly tried Solomon and placed on his throne a body; then he returned.}}
 
There is no explanation of what the ten nights are.
There is no explanation of what the ten nights are.
{{Quote|{{Quran|89|1-3}}|“By the break of dawn, And ten nights, And the even and the odd,}}Nor the four months.
{{Quote|{{Quran|89|1-3}}|“By the break of dawn, And ten nights, And the even and the odd,}}Nor the four months.
{{Quote|{{Quran|9|36}}|The number of months with God is twelve in accordance with God's law since the day He created the heavens and the earth. Of these four are holy. This is the straight reckoning. So do not exceed yourselves during them; but fight the idolaters to the end as they fight you in like manner; and remember, God is with those Who preserve themselves from evil and do the right.}}
{{Quote|{{Quran|9|36}}|The number of months with God is twelve in accordance with God's law since the day He created the heavens and the earth. Of these four are holy.  
This is the straight reckoning. So do not exceed yourselves during them; but fight the idolaters to the end as they fight you in like manner; and remember, God is with those Who preserve themselves from evil and do the right.}}
Even the whole of Surah 105 (Surah of the Elephant) is left unexplained, which we have to look to traditions and commentaries for the meaning and what it is referring to.<ref>E.g. ''[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Jalal/105.1 Tafsir Jalalayn on verse 105:1.]'' (Al Jalalayn / Jalal ad-Din al-Maḥalli and Jalal ad-Din as-Suyuti. Published in 1505.) summarises the general story.</ref>
Even the whole of Surah 105 (Surah of the Elephant) is left unexplained, which we have to look to traditions and commentaries for the meaning and what it is referring to.<ref>E.g. ''[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Jalal/105.1 Tafsir Jalalayn on verse 105:1.]'' (Al Jalalayn / Jalal ad-Din al-Maḥalli and Jalal ad-Din as-Suyuti. Published in 1505.) summarises the general story.</ref>
{{Quote|{{Quran|105|1-5}}|Have you not regarded how your Lord dealt with the army of the elephants? Did He not put their scheme into ruin? and send against them flocks of birds. Which hit them with stones of baked clay, thus making them like chewed-up straw?}}As are the first four verses of surah 90, as there is nothing to link the oath with the city of Mecca and it's meaning to Muhammad without extra-Quranic material.  
{{Quote|{{Quran|105|1-5}}|Have you not regarded how your Lord dealt with the army of the elephants?  
Did He not put their scheme into ruin?  
and send against them flocks of birds.  
Which hit them with stones of baked clay,  
thus making them like chewed-up straw?}}As are the first four verses of surah 90, as there is nothing to link the oath with the city of Mecca and it's meaning to Muhammad without extra-Quranic material.  
{{Quote|{{Quran|90|1-4}}|Nay! I swear by this city,
{{Quote|{{Quran|90|1-4}}|Nay! I swear by this city,
And you (are) free (to dwell) in this city.
And you (are) free (to dwell) in this city.
Line 141: Line 174:
The entire method of verifying isnads<ref>https://www.britannica.com/topic/isnad</ref> (a chain of narrators leading back to the prophet or his companions), and therefore the hadith, as being classed as authentic, good, weak or fabricated is also never mentioned in the Qur'an. These tell the reader whether they should be followed or not, so are of utter importance to the religion. However as Britannica notes, these are also a non-contemporary (to Muhammad or early companion's of his) invention:{{Quote|{{cite web|url=https://www.britannica.com/topic/isnad |title=Britannica entry on 'Isnads'}}|During Muhammad’s lifetime and after his death, hadiths were usually quoted by his Companions and contemporaries and were not prefaced by isnāds; only after a generation or two (c. 700 CE) did the isnād appear to enhance the weight of its text. In the 2nd century AH (after 720 CE), when the example of the Prophet as embodied in hadiths—rather than local custom as developed in Muslim communities—was established as the norm (sunnah) for an Islamic way of life, a wholesale creation of hadiths, all “substantiated” by elaborate isnāds, resulted. Since hadiths were the basis of virtually all Islamic scholarship, especially Qurʾānic exegesis (tafsīr) and legal theory (fiqh), Muslim scholars had to determine scientifically which of them were authentic. This was done by a careful scrutiny of the isnāds, rating each hadith according to the completeness of its chain of transmitters and the reliability and orthodoxy of its authorities.}}This has resulted in many different large collections across different books, which examining them all and personally scrutinising these chains being such an enormous task, it is usually simply left to scholars to issue rulings on matters, rather than a personal reading.
The entire method of verifying isnads<ref>https://www.britannica.com/topic/isnad</ref> (a chain of narrators leading back to the prophet or his companions), and therefore the hadith, as being classed as authentic, good, weak or fabricated is also never mentioned in the Qur'an. These tell the reader whether they should be followed or not, so are of utter importance to the religion. However as Britannica notes, these are also a non-contemporary (to Muhammad or early companion's of his) invention:{{Quote|{{cite web|url=https://www.britannica.com/topic/isnad |title=Britannica entry on 'Isnads'}}|During Muhammad’s lifetime and after his death, hadiths were usually quoted by his Companions and contemporaries and were not prefaced by isnāds; only after a generation or two (c. 700 CE) did the isnād appear to enhance the weight of its text. In the 2nd century AH (after 720 CE), when the example of the Prophet as embodied in hadiths—rather than local custom as developed in Muslim communities—was established as the norm (sunnah) for an Islamic way of life, a wholesale creation of hadiths, all “substantiated” by elaborate isnāds, resulted. Since hadiths were the basis of virtually all Islamic scholarship, especially Qurʾānic exegesis (tafsīr) and legal theory (fiqh), Muslim scholars had to determine scientifically which of them were authentic. This was done by a careful scrutiny of the isnāds, rating each hadith according to the completeness of its chain of transmitters and the reliability and orthodoxy of its authorities.}}This has resulted in many different large collections across different books, which examining them all and personally scrutinising these chains being such an enormous task, it is usually simply left to scholars to issue rulings on matters, rather than a personal reading.
{{Quote|{{cite web|url=https://www.britannica.com/topic/isnad |title= Britannica entry on 'ʿilm al-ḥadīth'}}|Many scholars produced collections of hadiths, the earliest compilation being the great Musnad of Aḥmad ibn Ḥanbal, arranged by isnād. But only six collections, known as al-kutub al-sittah (“the six books”), arranged by matn—those of al-Bukhārī (died 870), Muslim ibn al-Ḥajjāj (died 875), Abū Dāʾūd (died 888), al-Tirmidhī (died 892), Ibn Mājāh (died 886), and al-Nasāʾī (died 915)—came to be recognized as canonical in orthodox Islam, though the books of al-Bukhārī and Muslim enjoy a prestige that virtually eclipses the other four.}}
{{Quote|{{cite web|url=https://www.britannica.com/topic/isnad |title= Britannica entry on 'ʿilm al-ḥadīth'}}|Many scholars produced collections of hadiths, the earliest compilation being the great Musnad of Aḥmad ibn Ḥanbal, arranged by isnād. But only six collections, known as al-kutub al-sittah (“the six books”), arranged by matn—those of al-Bukhārī (died 870), Muslim ibn al-Ḥajjāj (died 875), Abū Dāʾūd (died 888), al-Tirmidhī (died 892), Ibn Mājāh (died 886), and al-Nasāʾī (died 915)—came to be recognized as canonical in orthodox Islam, though the books of al-Bukhārī and Muslim enjoy a prestige that virtually eclipses the other four.}}
== Additional Points ==
=== Differences between the Meccan - Medinan Split ===
As Mark Durie notes, there are stark differences between the Meccan and Medinan split of the role of Muhammad, in which he goes from a mere 'warner' to a military leader of a new theocracy requiring complete obedience alongside God.
{{Quote|Durie, Mark. The Qur’an and Its Biblical Reflexes: Investigations into the Genesis of a Religion (pp. 174-177). Lexington Books.|Before the Eschatological Transition the Messenger is “only” a “bringer of good news” (bashīr) and “a warner” (nadhīr) (Q7:188; Q17:105; Q25:1), with no “authority” or “lawful power” (sulṭān), just like previous messengers (Q14:11). Other pre-transitional descriptions of the Messenger are in the same vein: he is neither a “watcher” (ḥafīẓ; Q6:104, 107; Q11:86; Q42:48), nor a “guardian” (wakīl; Q6:66, 107; Q10:108; Q11:12; Q17:54; Q25:43; Q39:41; Q42:6), nor a “controller” or “record-keeper”12 (muṣayṭir; Q88:21–22), nor a “tyrant” (jabbār; Q50:45) over believers, nor does he himself guide them (Q28:56),13 so “nothing of their account (falls) on you” (Q6:52).14 For believers, the emphasis at this stage is on believing the signs of Alla¯h, trusting in Alla¯h, rejecting association (shirk), and being eager to do good deeds, including making contributions (zakat), and performing daily prayers [...]
[...] After the transition, the community of believers becomes dissociated from disbelievers, who are not to be taken as “allies.” The believers are a more regulated community, which now “commands right and forbids wrong,” exercising authority even over disbelievers. The Messenger’s function also changes after the transition, when he assumes a position of command over believers, whose duty is no longer merely to listen to the Messenger and believe, but to obey, giving him their total personal allegiance (Sinai 2015–2016, 68). The community is now to “obey Alla¯h and (obey) His/the Messenger,” for “Whoever obeys the Messenger has obeyed Alla¯h” (Q4:80).15 It is striking that the formula “obey Alla¯h and (obey) His/the Messenger” appears 21 times in post-transitional sūrahs but never in pre-transitional sūrahs. The phrase “Alla¯h and the/his Messenger” joins the authority of the Messenger to that of Alla¯h.16 “Alla¯h” is conjoined with “the/his Messenger” (and sometimes “messengers”) 97 times after the transition, in 16 of the 23 post-transitional sūrahs, but only twice before the transition (Q72:23 and Q7:158). [...]
[...] Before the transition the emphasis is on believing Alla¯h’s warnings through the Messenger, and responding to these warnings by doing good deeds. After the transition the emphasis is on obedience in conformity to the specific instructions—the “limits”—brought by the Messenger, who is paired with Alla¯h in authority over believers.}}
Which is when the Qur'an shows this development, creating problems for Quranists. Critics content this change in theology shows a man-made difference in response to the surrounding circumstances rather than a consistent God as is claimed in {{Quran|35|43}} ''(But you will never find in the way of Allah any change, and you will never find in the way of Allah any alteration'').


==See Also==
==See Also==
Line 150: Line 193:


*[http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/EdipYukselindex.htm Debate - Edip Yuksel vs. Ali Sina] - ''Dr. Edip Yuksel, is a prominent member of the submitters (Qur'an-Only Muslims).''
*[http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/EdipYukselindex.htm Debate - Edip Yuksel vs. Ali Sina] - ''Dr. Edip Yuksel, is a prominent member of the submitters (Qur'an-Only Muslims).''
*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJpM9MyJMxE The Jinn that Took Solomon's Ring] ''- Hassan Radwan - YouTube video on a problematic verse for Quran-only Muslims''


===Links from Muslims===
===Links from Muslims===
441

edits