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User talk:Nightmare140: Difference between revisions
→Quran 4:16
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No I don't. The point I'm talking about is if "this" and only this verse is talking about 2 men or not, not if the whole thing about homosexuality is true or not. You're saying the Qur'an isn't as clear and detailed as it claims to be. Hell, if you want it to be clearer and more detailed than that, do you want a 20000-page book that no one can read? God claims the Qur'an is clear and detailed, and indeed it is. He doesn't say each and every verse has an independent meaning that could be clearly understood while standing alone, but the Qur'an as a whole stands tall, with each verse clarifying the other ones if necessary. Now, if people can understand a verse, then there's no need to clarify it with other verses, making a 603-page book even bigger. Now, as you can read from Tafsirs, we can infer from other verses and Hadiths the punishments of adultery or homosexuality and apply it here to understand the meaning clearly. So even if you still don't know the partial meaning of the verse (if it's 2 or 2 men), you clearly and fully understand the complete meaning of the subject in hand, so what do you want more? Anyway, let's continue, you again quoted the Grammatical reasoning that was made to prove it, which I already talked about in the last edit. --[[User:Nightmare140|Nightmare140]] ([[User talk:Nightmare140|talk]]) 05:40, 30 May 2014 (PDT) | No I don't. The point I'm talking about is if "this" and only this verse is talking about 2 men or not, not if the whole thing about homosexuality is true or not. You're saying the Qur'an isn't as clear and detailed as it claims to be. Hell, if you want it to be clearer and more detailed than that, do you want a 20000-page book that no one can read? God claims the Qur'an is clear and detailed, and indeed it is. He doesn't say each and every verse has an independent meaning that could be clearly understood while standing alone, but the Qur'an as a whole stands tall, with each verse clarifying the other ones if necessary. Now, if people can understand a verse, then there's no need to clarify it with other verses, making a 603-page book even bigger. Now, as you can read from Tafsirs, we can infer from other verses and Hadiths the punishments of adultery or homosexuality and apply it here to understand the meaning clearly. So even if you still don't know the partial meaning of the verse (if it's 2 or 2 men), you clearly and fully understand the complete meaning of the subject in hand, so what do you want more? Anyway, let's continue, you again quoted the Grammatical reasoning that was made to prove it, which I already talked about in the last edit. --[[User:Nightmare140|Nightmare140]] ([[User talk:Nightmare140|talk]]) 05:40, 30 May 2014 (PDT) | ||
:We just quote authentic, recognized translations and in addition if they are supported by Tafsirs of of well-renowned Islamic scholars, that is more than what needs to be done. If you have a problem with the sources, you can start contacting Islamic scholars around the world and get them to invalidate Yusuf Ali's translation and the two Tafsirs (Tafsir Al-Jalalayn and Tafsir Ibn Kathir) | |||
:I like these kinds of discussions as they result in further improvement of our site. In this case I found out additional Tafsirs should be present on the page. | |||
:In regards to your comments about Quran getting long if additional detail was added, no it would not. Ideally Quran should not be [https://www.google.com/search?q=quran+repetitive&spell=1&sa=X&ei=f-uIU8CoGoWSqAbizoC4DQ&ved=0CCYQvwUoAA&biw=1920&bih=860 repetitive] and for example contain the same statement [http://quran.com/55/37-78 31 times] (''"So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny?"''). 30 of these verses should have been deleted from the Quran and the same words could have been used to fill out many details or perhaps include amazing miraculous verses which would attempt to prove the 'divine' origin of the Quran. In the case of 4:16, it would take only one arabic word to clarify the meaning of this important verse. Mistakes like these further prove the non-divine origin of the Quran. | |||
:But such debates are for the [http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/ FFI forum] which you can visit. Any other issues relating to this article? --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 13:41, 30 May 2014 (PDT) | |||