User talk:Lightyears: Difference between revisions

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Since you agreed with my take on constellations, how about going ahead with an article on that claim? Will you clear my edits in it when its ready? [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:45, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
Dear [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]]
I have completed the rough draft of 'Iddah article (https://wikiislam.net/index.php?title=User_talk:Lehrasap/Sandbox_1). It is requested to please have a look at it and advice the necessary edits and what to further do with it. Thanks.</br>
[[User:Lehrasap|Lehrasap]] ([[User talk:Lehrasap|talk]]) 23:03, 28 November 2021 (UTC)


I do agree on it as a theological issue, so I'd have no issue with an article on that (I think it should mention that it is also a general problem like with continents, mountains taking a long time to form, plants that we eat to evolve etc.). But I've never actually created a new article on here (people have copied a couple of my articles onto here since I made them under the Creative Commons license) so I don't know how or what the protocols are for doing so. I'm sure someone who runs the site (Axius?) could help.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 11:53, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
== Mecca article ==
:I asked because you check your own edits. First there's a sandbox , then when finished it will be a article and we will link it.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 13:05, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
::Just in case you mean to link to the new article from the scientific errors page, I don't think the link to the article should be put on there (as it's not a scientific error). I just meant that it's fine as a new article. Maybe there are more suitable places to link to it from. If you were to recreate a section on the scientific errors page to put your link to the new article, I'll leave it to others to decide whether to remove it, but I think you'd have to at least write in such a recreated section that this is not strictly a scientific error, but is a theological absurdity/difficulty.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 13:22, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
:::hi Lightyears, a new page can be made through the help page [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Help:Contents#How_to_Create_a_New_Page] although I believe the Constellation article is a lower priority. A higher priority for us should be to review the Scientific errors page so we can remove the under review template. Thanks for some of your edits in trying to fix some of these errors in that article.
:::In addition if you have any suggestions for the site of any kind, anything which you think should be done differently, anything you think would be beneficial for the site let me know. You have as much authority on this site as I do. I like for all of us to make decisions as a team. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 15:54, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
::::OK, thanks. I'll let you know if I think of anything [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 16:48, 23 May 2014 (PDT)


I have something I need to do as of today, so won't be able to do any more editing for the foreseeable future in case any one wonders. [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 02:17, 24 May 2014 (PDT)
I have revised my proposed additions, mainly to standardise the references.
:Thanks Fernando, the ref formatting looks good, though a few extra tips will be useful: When you use the visual editor it seems to be adding the <code><nowiki><nowiki></nowiki></nowiki></code> tags to external links, which are not necessary (it's better if readers can click the link). I'm not sure why that's happening, but these tags can be removed via the source editor when you update the article itself if the same happens there (please feel free to go ahead and add your updates when you are ready).


== Geocentral Quran documents ==
:Quran verses should be cited using the <code><nowiki>{{Quran||}}</nowiki></code> or <code><nowiki>{{Quran-range|||}}</nowiki></code> templates so they can be conveniently clicked by readers to check for themselves on the Quranx website. Wikipedia pages (which we sometimes cite for general overviews) can be linked using another tag in a format like this <code><nowiki>[[w:Petra|Petra]]</nowiki></code>, ‘Climate’ and ‘Byzantine Period’ - Wikipedia.org [where the first parameter is the wikipedia article name and the second is the display text you want to use). I don't use the visual editor myself, but there's an option to insert templates and then search for quran or quran-range. If there's no means to use the <code><nowiki>[[w:]]</nowiki></code> tag in the visual editor it's fine to just use the normal linking feature instead.


Someone emailed us a zip file that contained documents relating to the Geocentral Quran. If you're interested in looking at them let me know through our [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Contact_Us email] and I can forward that link to you. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 16:25, 27 May 2014 (PDT)
:For Crone's article you currently only have a short version of the reference. This seems to be unintentional as your first revision on 10 September removed what was the full reference from your initial comments. It would be better to have the more complete version of the Crone reference for your page update. Similarly, for Tesei's article it's great to link the freely accessible academia copy but as well as giving the full reference. An example of a better format is the Tesei reference in the [[Prophecies in the Quran]] article.


== Your Dhul-Qarnayn article helped a former Muslim ==
Lightyears
I've updated the main article.  I'm not sure whether it's public yet. When it is I'll delete the sandbox material to avoid confusion.


Your article was linked [http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f15/a-friend-has-apostated-67731/index3.html here] (post #22). Starts from #16 [http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f15/a-friend-has-apostated-67731/index2.html here], saying:
:Also, feel free to add the points you mentioned on the historical attestation of Muhammad talk page, though it should also be mentioned clearly that Ohlig is considered part of the Revisionist school of thought in Islamic studies, specifically the Inârah Institute who are considered a fringe group by other academic scholars. It looks like there is an intention to flesh out the empty sections at some point but it's fine to make those changes now. [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 14:41, 11 September 2023 (UTC)


{{Quote||I know a brother on the internet i speak to daily and he seems to have gotten into this kind of doubt as well and is on the edge of apostasy. If he already hasnt apostatized.
I've added more on David A. King.  Thanks for the technical advice, I'll go over the whole thing tomorrow.
I'm not sure what you mean by a full reference. To include 'https://www.'?  The examples you give don't seem to have this.
Regards Fernando
I can't work out how to edit footnotes.  I suppose it's possible to delete and then add
:Hi, I'm away for a few days with only my phone, but I recommend the source editor if anything doesn't work well with the visual editor.  


What can you advise me to do and help him?
:By full refs I just meant this
:Patricia Crone, ''How Did the Quranic Pagans Make a Living? Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies,'' University of London, Vol. 68, No. 3 (2005), pp. 387-399. Available at http://www.jstor.org/stable/20181949, and in her ''Collected Studies'' (2016).


He seems to have issues with certain verses and ahadith containing information that is completely in contrast with current scientific knowledge or even facts.
:Instead of simply Patricia Crone, ''[https://www.jstor.org/stable/20181949 How Did the Quranic Pagans Make a Living?]'' , also in her ''Collected Studies'' (2016).


---
:The first time a journal article is cited we need to give the full ref. The short version would be fine if it's cited again a 2nd time in the same article. I imagine that was your intention originally.  
...


Next thing you know he sends me wikiislam articles, like this one [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Dhul-Qarnayn_and_the_Sun_Setting_in_a_Muddy_Spring_-_Part_One Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring (Part One) - WikiIslam]
:Similarly this would be better:
. Now i cant deal with the technicalities and the arabic to refute these issues. But now he claims that muslims are just trying to twist the meanings of the verses just to get away with the current facts. So it is going to be hard to refute all the issues as i know wikiislam has a whole list concerning the scientific issues.}}
:Tommaso Tesei [https://www.academia.edu/75302962/ The Qurʾān(s) in Context(s)] Journal Asiatique 309.2 (2021): 185-202


Once again great job on the Dhul-Qarnayn articles. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 13:57, 4 August 2014 (PDT)
:Instead of just [https://www.academia.edu/75302962/_The_Qur%CA%BE%C4%81n_s_in_Context_s_Journal_Asiatique_309_2_2021_185_202 Tommaso Tesei]


== Iconoclasm ==
[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 22:16, 22 September 2023 (UTC)


Appparently, Wikiislam doesn't cover iconoclasm (especially Muhammad's) or say vandalism, in any dedicated page. Can you correct me if wrong?  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 07:52, 18 September 2016 (EDT)
Lightyears
:I think you're right. It could make for an interesting and very topical page given events of recent years if there's a decent amount of material to be found in sahih hadiths, maybe also sirat, tafsirs etc. I've no idea how to approve pages or what the processes are for new pages. The best thing for you to do would be to contact the exmna, who I believe have taken over running the site. It looks like Axius and Sahab might have retired as they've been inactive for quite a while now after an immense effort for some years.
I've made some more changes. Would it be possible to finalise the whole thing now?  I've asked some questions, and other readers may have the answers.
:Sure, you can go ahead and add your work into the Mecca article itself. At some point we will add some further content/edits. [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 00:10, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
:You have another interesting sandbox page on claims of evolution that would be worthwhile if it's not already covered. In the first section you should probably also quote 24:45 as it implies that not just the earliest life, but 2 and 4 legged animals (such as birds or cattle) were created from water too, which has no resemblance to sciencific theories. The repeating creation verses are probably resurrection (Muhammad faced a lot of skepticism about resurrection, as the Qur'an records). Jalalayn and ibn Kathir tafsirs for these verses confirm this, though the flood stuff is still worth mentioning too. The article would also benefit from a brief section on the explicit mentions of special creation of Adam that foil attempts to fit human evolution into the Qur'an regardless of how other verses might seem compatible with it. But before going to much more effort it'd be a good idea to get in contact with whoever is running the site now as I don't really want to take on the committment of doing admin such as reviewing and approving stuff and I imagine they probably have a plan for resuming the performance of such tasks in future.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 15:58, 18 September 2016 (EDT)
 
::Most of them are busy with their other work. But you can approve changes right? Then we might take the evolution article further. @ Iconoclasm, i have expanded this topic with some hadith. @scientific errors: what do you think about the mountains created in 4 days error [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/User:Saggy/Sandbox_-_Issues_with_Quran_and_Hadith#Mountains_were_Created_in_Four_Days]?  [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 14:29, 22 September 2016 (EDT)
== Hello, are you currently reviewing updates please? ==
:::I approved the Iconoclasm hadiths (except one of them for brevity), good stuff. I don't think the mountains one is a strong enough error because the verse talks about a bunch of things, not just the mountains as happening in 4 days.
 
::::[http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=41&tAyahNo=10&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2] and [http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2128&Itemid=97] say he put the mountains and also the earth was prepared with crops, plants, food etc in 4 days Even this hasn't happened in 4 days in reality. Then there are hadith which specify that mountains were formed in 1 day. The minimum that we could phrase as an error is: "the author of the Quran is unaware of (or has simply ignored) how long mountains take to form," similar to many other paragraphs in that article. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 14:33, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
Hey Lightyears - I hope you are well and have had a great holiday period! You've previously reviewed and accepted/edited many of my updates (and on the shooting stars page) - I was just checking if they were still coming through okay, as some have been here for about a month? Or if you're taking a break just let me know and I'll reach out to another editior. Cheers, CPO675
:::::I've added 41:9-10 to the Earth and Heavens created in six days section as the mountain stuff is too vague to merit its own section. The Qur'an itself isn't clear on whether the mountains are placed on day 3 or days 3&4 or 1-4. It weakens the page to rely on tafsirs or hadiths to make a specific error claim. I have however pointed out that mountains continue to rise and fall to this day. It now says as much as we can say on this topic for a Qur'an errors page. It already says that the Qur'an is wrong to say that the heavens and Earth were formed in such short time periods, but I've added some additional commentary on the Earth specifically.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 19:05, 24 September 2016 (EDT)
:Hi, due to external events recently I have had to concentrate on other things and have been unable to look at the wiki. Possibly that may change quite soon but otherwise ASmith should be able to help. [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 23:17, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 
Okay no worries thank you! Will do (Y)

Latest revision as of 14:47, 14 January 2024

Dear Lightyears I have completed the rough draft of 'Iddah article (https://wikiislam.net/index.php?title=User_talk:Lehrasap/Sandbox_1). It is requested to please have a look at it and advice the necessary edits and what to further do with it. Thanks.
Lehrasap (talk) 23:03, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Mecca article

I have revised my proposed additions, mainly to standardise the references.

Thanks Fernando, the ref formatting looks good, though a few extra tips will be useful: When you use the visual editor it seems to be adding the <nowiki></nowiki> tags to external links, which are not necessary (it's better if readers can click the link). I'm not sure why that's happening, but these tags can be removed via the source editor when you update the article itself if the same happens there (please feel free to go ahead and add your updates when you are ready).
Quran verses should be cited using the {{Quran||}} or {{Quran-range|||}} templates so they can be conveniently clicked by readers to check for themselves on the Quranx website. Wikipedia pages (which we sometimes cite for general overviews) can be linked using another tag in a format like this [[w:Petra|Petra]], ‘Climate’ and ‘Byzantine Period’ - Wikipedia.org [where the first parameter is the wikipedia article name and the second is the display text you want to use). I don't use the visual editor myself, but there's an option to insert templates and then search for quran or quran-range. If there's no means to use the [[w:]] tag in the visual editor it's fine to just use the normal linking feature instead.
For Crone's article you currently only have a short version of the reference. This seems to be unintentional as your first revision on 10 September removed what was the full reference from your initial comments. It would be better to have the more complete version of the Crone reference for your page update. Similarly, for Tesei's article it's great to link the freely accessible academia copy but as well as giving the full reference. An example of a better format is the Tesei reference in the Prophecies in the Quran article.

Lightyears I've updated the main article. I'm not sure whether it's public yet. When it is I'll delete the sandbox material to avoid confusion.

Also, feel free to add the points you mentioned on the historical attestation of Muhammad talk page, though it should also be mentioned clearly that Ohlig is considered part of the Revisionist school of thought in Islamic studies, specifically the Inârah Institute who are considered a fringe group by other academic scholars. It looks like there is an intention to flesh out the empty sections at some point but it's fine to make those changes now. Lightyears (talk) 14:41, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

I've added more on David A. King. Thanks for the technical advice, I'll go over the whole thing tomorrow. I'm not sure what you mean by a full reference. To include 'https://www.'? The examples you give don't seem to have this. Regards Fernando I can't work out how to edit footnotes. I suppose it's possible to delete and then add

Hi, I'm away for a few days with only my phone, but I recommend the source editor if anything doesn't work well with the visual editor.
By full refs I just meant this
Patricia Crone, How Did the Quranic Pagans Make a Living? Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London, Vol. 68, No. 3 (2005), pp. 387-399. Available at http://www.jstor.org/stable/20181949, and in her Collected Studies (2016).
Instead of simply Patricia Crone, How Did the Quranic Pagans Make a Living? , also in her Collected Studies (2016).
The first time a journal article is cited we need to give the full ref. The short version would be fine if it's cited again a 2nd time in the same article. I imagine that was your intention originally.
Similarly this would be better:
Tommaso Tesei The Qurʾān(s) in Context(s) Journal Asiatique 309.2 (2021): 185-202
Instead of just Tommaso Tesei

Lightyears (talk) 22:16, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Lightyears I've made some more changes. Would it be possible to finalise the whole thing now? I've asked some questions, and other readers may have the answers.

Sure, you can go ahead and add your work into the Mecca article itself. At some point we will add some further content/edits. Lightyears (talk) 00:10, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Hello, are you currently reviewing updates please?

Hey Lightyears - I hope you are well and have had a great holiday period! You've previously reviewed and accepted/edited many of my updates (and on the shooting stars page) - I was just checking if they were still coming through okay, as some have been here for about a month? Or if you're taking a break just let me know and I'll reach out to another editior. Cheers, CPO675

Hi, due to external events recently I have had to concentrate on other things and have been unable to look at the wiki. Possibly that may change quite soon but otherwise ASmith should be able to help. Lightyears (talk) 23:17, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Okay no worries thank you! Will do (Y)