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When critics point out that the [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Quran Qur'anic Earth is flat], or that the author of the Qur'an believed that [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Dhul-Qarnayn_and_the_Sun_Setting_in_a_Muddy_Spring_-_Part_One the sun sets in a muddy spring], and furthermore, that such verses encouraged the early Muslims to maintain false beliefs about the world, sometimes people claim in response that everyone knew that the Earth was round by the time of Muhammad. This article will dispel that assertion, and as such is complementary to discussions about Islamic cosmography.
When critics point out that the [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Quran Qur'anic Earth is flat], or that the author of the Qur'an believed that [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Dhul-Qarnayn_and_the_Sun_Setting_in_a_Muddy_Spring_-_Part_One the sun sets in a muddy spring], and furthermore, that such verses encouraged the early Muslims to maintain false beliefs about the world, sometimes people claim in response that everyone knew that the Earth was round by the time of Muhammad. This article will dispel that assertion, and as such is complementary to discussions about Islamic cosmography.


It seems that despite the best efforts of apologetics websites, there is no known evidence for a round Earth belief among the earliest Muslims, and plenty of evidence for belief in a flat Earth.
It seems that despite the best efforts of apologetics websites, there is no known evidence for a round Earth belief among the earliest Muslims, which would surely be abundant if Muhammad had such knowledge, and plenty of evidence for belief in a flat Earth.


==False claims that there was always a Muslim consensus for a round Earth==
==False claims that there was always a Muslim consensus for a round Earth==
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While many people in some regions had [[w:Spherical_Earth|known for centuries]] that the Earth was round and not flat, the question is whether Muhammad and his nearby contemporaries in Arabia had this knowledge.
While many people in some regions had [[w:Spherical_Earth|known for centuries]] that the Earth was round and not flat, the question is whether Muhammad and his nearby contemporaries in Arabia had this knowledge.


[https://islamqa.info/en/118698 One Islamic fatwah website] (copied by others) quotes from scholars who lived hundreds of years after Muhammad in a failed attempt to show that there was always a Muslim scholarly consensus that the Earth is round. They are implying that the Qur'an does not reflect a very human lack of knowledge about the shape of the Earth.
[https://islamqa.info/en/118698 One Islamic fatwah website] (copied by others) quotes from scholars who lived hundreds of years after Muhammad in a failed attempt to show that there was always a Muslim consensus that the Earth is round. They are implying that the Qur'an does not reflect a very human lack of knowledge about the shape of the Earth.


To do so, they first quote from a book by ibn Taymiyyah (d. 728 AH/1328 CE), who in turn cites Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al Munadi as saying that the scholars from the second level of the companions of Imam Ahmad (d. 241 AH / 855 CE) – i.e. the early Hanbalis - are agreed that both the sky and Earth are balls, the latter based on astronomical reasoning. This evidence is worthless, because from the 8th century CE the Muslims had access to Greek and Indian knowledge (see below), so of course the more recent scholars had this view. As we read on, it is apparent that there was no such consensus earlier about the shape of the Earth.
'''ibn Taymiyyah'''


They then quote ibn Taymiyyah again, who is this time citing Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al Munadi(again), Abu’l-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi (d. 597 AH / 1201 CE), and ibn Hazm (d. 456 AH / 1064 CE) saying that there is a consensus that the heavens are round. Notice that he says the heavens, but nothing about the Earth. He says they provided evidence from the Qur'an, sunnah, and narrations from the companions (sahabah) and second generation.
To do so, they first quote from a book by ibn Taymiyyah (d. 728 AH/1328 CE), who in turn cites Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al Munadi as saying that the scholars from the second level of the companions of Imam Ahmad (d. 241 AH / 855 CE) – i.e. the early Hanbalis – said there was consensus among the scholars that both heaven and Earth are balls, the latter based on astronomical reasoning. This evidence is worthless, because from the 8th century CE the Muslims had access to Greek and Indian astronomical knowledge (see below), so of course Muslim scholars had this view. The term 'consensus' (ijma) was used in different ways by different scholars, but essentially meant the agreement of Muslim scholars, or ideally, also of the salaf (the first three generations of Muslims)<ref>[http://www.sunnah.org/fiqh/ijma.htm http://www.sunnah.org/fiqh/ijma.htm]</ref>. In this case it is explicitly the scholars. As we read on, however, it is apparent that even this "consensus" for a round Earth was rather nebulous, and as already mentioned and will see again, those who did endorse a round Earth did so because they were educated people aware of the astronomical arguments.


Ibn Taymiyyah continues the passage<ref>For the full chapter in Arabic see [https://ar.wikisource.org/wiki/مجموع_الفتاوى/المجلد_السادس/سئل_عن_رجلين_تنازعا_في_كيفية_السماء_والأرض Wikisource.org wikisource.org], and for someone's English translation for most of the relevant parts  see [http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=6&Topic=1859 Salafitalk forum]</ref> giving the supposed evidence for round heavens in the Qur'an, sunnah, and narrations from the early Muslims (not included by the Islamic fatwah website). In between, he argues that a round heavens and Earth is supported by what specialists on tafsir and language have said about certain words in the Qur'an.
They then quote ibn Taymiyyah again, who is answering a question about the shape of the heavens and Earth, this time citing Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al Munadi (again), Abu’l-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi (d. 597 AH / 1201 CE), and ibn Hazm (d. 456 AH / 1064 CE) as saying that there is a consensus that the heavens are round. Notice that despite the topic, he says the heavens, but nothing about the Earth. He says they provided evidence from the Qur'an, sunnah, and narrations from the companions (sahabah) and second generation.
 
Ibn Taymiyyah continues the passage<ref>For the full chapter in Arabic see [https://ar.wikisource.org/wiki/مجموع_الفتاوى/المجلد_السادس/سئل_عن_رجلين_تنازعا_في_كيفية_السماء_والأرض Wikisource.org], and for someone's English translation for most of the relevant parts  see [http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=6&Topic=1859 Salafitalk forum]</ref> giving the supposed evidence for round heavens in the Qur'an, sunnah, and narrations from the early Muslims (not included by the Islamic fatwah website). In between, he argues that a round heavens and Earth is supported by what specialists on tafsir and language have said about certain words in the Qur'an.


It is the hadiths and companions that we are interested in for the purposes of this article (the Qur'an verses cited by ibn Taymiyyah are {{Quran|21|33}}, {{Quran|36|40}}, {{Quran|39|5}}, and {{Quran|67|5}}).
It is the hadiths and companions that we are interested in for the purposes of this article (the Qur'an verses cited by ibn Taymiyyah are {{Quran|21|33}}, {{Quran|36|40}}, {{Quran|39|5}}, and {{Quran|67|5}}).
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in a whirl (whorl), like the whirl of a spindle}}
in a whirl (whorl), like the whirl of a spindle}}


See the comments and footnotes about falak in the article [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Geocentrism_and_the_Quran Geocentrism and the Quran]. Now given that the sun and moon appear both to arc across the sky, even to those who imagined the Earth was flat and the heavens a dome (or a sphere), such people would also imagine some path for them continuing beneath the Earth after they have set so they can return whence they came (as also in the hadith from Abu Dharr discussed later in this article). Indeed, this is what we read from ibn 'Abbas as noted by ibn Kathir regarding {{Quran|31|29}}:
See the comments and footnotes about falak in the article [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Geocentrism_and_the_Quran Geocentrism and the Quran] (a whirl was a small wheel or hemisphere that span around a spindle<ref>الفَلَكُ falak - [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume6/00000228.pdf Lane's Lexicon] Volume 1 page 2444. See also the [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume6/00000227.pdf previous page]. Lane says that the falak was generally imagined as a celestial hemisphere by the Arabs, but also that the Arab astronomers applied the term to seven spheres for the sun, moon, and the five visible planets, rotating about the celestial pole. This must reflect the post-Qur'anic influence of Ptolemy, whose astronomical work was translated for the Arabs from the 8th century onwards.</ref>). Now given that the sun and moon appear both to arc across the sky, even to those who imagined the Earth was flat and the heavens a dome (or a sphere), such people would also imagine some path for them continuing beneath the Earth after they have set so they can return whence they came (as also in the hadith from Abu Dharr discussed later in this article). Indeed, this is precisely what we read from ibn 'Abbas as noted by ibn Kathir in his Tafsir for {{Quran|31|29}}. The sun runs in its falak (فَلَكهَا) in the sky / heaven (السَّمَاء) during the day, and when it sets it runs at night in its falak beneath the Earth:


{{Quote|1=[http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1784 Tafsir ibn Kathir for 31:29]|2=Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn ’Abbas said, “The sun is like flowing water, running in its course in the sky during the day. When it sets, it travels in its course beneath the earth until it rises in the east.” He said, “The same is true in the case of the moon.” Its chain of narration is Sahih.}}
{{Quote|1=[http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1784 Tafsir ibn Kathir for 31:29]|2=Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn ’Abbas said, “The sun is like flowing water, running in its course in the sky during the day. When it sets, it travels in its course beneath the earth until it rises in the east.” He said, “The same is true in the case of the moon.” Its chain of narration is Sahih.}}
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Ibn Taymiyyah then says that a middle only exists in a round thing. How any of this helps demonstrate that the heavens are spherical is a mystery.
Ibn Taymiyyah then says that a middle only exists in a round thing. How any of this helps demonstrate that the heavens are spherical is a mystery.


The Islamic fatwah website then quotes one of the three that ibn Taymiyyah cited, ibn Hazm, who said that there is sound evidence that the Earth is round, but the common people thought otherwise, though none of the leading Muslim scholars denied that the Earth is round. So firstly, uneducated people (as were Muhammad and the sahabah) thought the Earth to be flat even in ibn Hazm's day. Secondly, his statement provides no evidence that the earliest scholars actually said the Earth is round (just that any leading scholars didn't say it was flat).
'''Ibn Hazm'''


They go on to quote from a 20th century book of fatwas, which claims that the Earth is egg shaped and also uses verse 39:5, both of which arguments are debunked in the article [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Quran Flat Earth and the Quran].
The Islamic fatwah website then quotes one of the three that ibn Taymiyyah cited, ibn Hazm, who said that there is sound evidence that the Earth is round, but the common people and some non-leading Muslim scholars thought otherwise, though none of the leading scholars denied that the Earth is round.  


So to summarise, there seems to be no evidence available to suggest that the earliest Muslims believed the Earth was round. Instead, there is plenty of evidence that they thought the Earth to be flat, as explained below.
So firstly, uneducated people (as were Muhammad and the sahabah) thought the Earth to be flat even in ibn Hazm's day. Secondly, his statement provides no evidence that the earliest scholars actually said the Earth is round (just that leading scholars didn't say it was flat). It is clear that Ibn Hazm and the other followers of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal mentioned above believed in a round Earth for astronomical reasons, even if some of them attempted to find further backup from the Qur'an and sunnah.
 
Given that Ibn Taymiyyah cites these scholars, the narrations he then uses to support spherical heavens (when asked about the shape of both the heavens and Earth), were presumably the best they could come up with. If a consensus for a round Earth went back to Muhammad and the companions, surely the scholars could come up with better than this feeble evidence.
 
The website goes on to quote from a 20th century book of fatwas, which claims that the Earth is egg shaped and also makes an argument using verse 39:5, both of which are debunked in the article [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Quran Flat Earth and the Quran].
 
So to summarise, there seems to be no evidence available that the earliest Muslims believed the Earth is round. Instead, there is lots of evidence that they thought the Earth to be flat, as explained further below. But before we come to that, let's see what historians have to say about Arab astronomical knowledge.


==Acquisition of Greek and Indian astronomical knowledge==
==Acquisition of Greek and Indian astronomical knowledge==
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'''Do you know where the sun goes?''' They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: '''Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place''' and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: '''Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting.''' The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.<ref>For the Arabic, see [http://sunnah.com/muslim/1/306 sunnah.com] or #159: [http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=192&TOCID=81&BookID=25&PID=299 hadith.al-islam.com]</ref>}}
'''Do you know where the sun goes?''' They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: '''Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place''' and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: '''Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting.''' The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.<ref>For the Arabic, see [http://sunnah.com/muslim/1/306 sunnah.com] or #159: [http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=192&TOCID=81&BookID=25&PID=299 hadith.al-islam.com]</ref>}}


Notice that it says, "from its rising place" (min matli'iha مَطْلِعِهَا ), and "from the place of your setting" (min maghribiki مِنْ مَغْرِبِكِ). The sun is commanded to go somewhere – it cannot be claimed that this is an idiomatic way of commanding the Earth to rotate, nor that the words mean the east and west here (despite mistranslations of similar hadiths), for which the words al mashriq and al maghrib would have been used. The words used in this hadith must refer to the sun’s rising and setting places.
Notice that it says, "from its rising place" (min matli'iha مَطْلِعِهَا ), and "from the place of your setting" (min maghribiki مِنْ مَغْرِبِكِ). The sun is commanded to go somewhere – it cannot be claimed that this is an idiomatic way of commanding the Earth to rotate, nor that the words mean the east and west here (despite mistranslations of similar hadiths), not least because the words al mashriq and al maghrib would have been used for that purpose and without the possessive suffixes. The words used in this hadith must refer to the sun’s rising and setting places - it is pure nonsense to claim otherwise.


==Flat Earth in Tafsirs==
==Flat Earth in Tafsirs==
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قَالَ : كَانَ اِبْن عَبَّاس يَقْرَأ هَذَا الْحَرْف { فِي عَيْن حَمِئَة }
قَالَ : كَانَ اِبْن عَبَّاس يَقْرَأ هَذَا الْحَرْف { فِي عَيْن حَمِئَة }
   
   
Muhammad bin 'Abd al-A'laa narrated and said: Marwan bin Mu'awiya narrated from Warqa, he said: I heard Sa'id ibn Jubayr say: ibn 'Abbas read this letter "in a muddy spring"
Muhammad bin 'Abd al-A'laa narrated and said: Marwan ibn Mu'awiya narrated from Warqa, he said: I heard Sa'id ibn Jubayr say: ibn 'Abbas read this letter "in a muddy spring"


وَيَقُول : حَمْأَة سَوْدَاء تَغْرُب فِيهَا الشَّمْس
وَيَقُول : حَمْأَة سَوْدَاء تَغْرُب فِيهَا الشَّمْس
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حَدَّثَنِي مُوسَى بْن هَارُونَ , قَالَ : حَدَّثَنَا عَمْرو بْن حَمَّاد , قَالَ : حَدَّثَنَا أَسْبَاط , عَنْ السُّدِّيّ فِي خَبَر ذَكَرَهُ , عَنْ أَبِي مَالِك , وَعَنْ أَبِي صَالِح , عَنْ ابْن عَبَّاس , وَعَنْ مُرَّة , عَنْ ابْن مَسْعُود وَعَنْ نَاس مِنْ أَصْحَاب النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : { وَالسَّمَاء بِنَاء } , فَبِنَاء السَّمَاء عَلَى الْأَرْض كَهَيْئَةِ الْقُبَّة , وَهِيَ سَقْف عَلَى الْأَرْض .وَحَدَّثَنَا بِشْر بْن مُعَاذ , قَالَ : حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيد , عَنْ سَعِيد , عَنْ قَتَادَةَ فِي قَوْل اللَّه { وَالسَّمَاء بِنَاء } قَالَ : جَعَلَ السَّمَاء سَقْفًا لَك .
حَدَّثَنِي مُوسَى بْن هَارُونَ , قَالَ : حَدَّثَنَا عَمْرو بْن حَمَّاد , قَالَ : حَدَّثَنَا أَسْبَاط , عَنْ السُّدِّيّ فِي خَبَر ذَكَرَهُ , عَنْ أَبِي مَالِك , وَعَنْ أَبِي صَالِح , عَنْ ابْن عَبَّاس , وَعَنْ مُرَّة , عَنْ ابْن مَسْعُود وَعَنْ نَاس مِنْ أَصْحَاب النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللَّه عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : { وَالسَّمَاء بِنَاء } , فَبِنَاء السَّمَاء عَلَى الْأَرْض كَهَيْئَةِ الْقُبَّة , وَهِيَ سَقْف عَلَى الْأَرْض .وَحَدَّثَنَا بِشْر بْن مُعَاذ , قَالَ : حَدَّثَنَا يَزِيد , عَنْ سَعِيد , عَنْ قَتَادَةَ فِي قَوْل اللَّه { وَالسَّمَاء بِنَاء } قَالَ : جَعَلَ السَّمَاء سَقْفًا لَك .


Musa bin Harun narrated and said that Amr bin Hammad narrated and said that Asbath narrated from al-Suddi in the report mentioned, from Abu Malik, and from Abu Salih, from ibn 'Abbas and from Murrah, from ibn Masud and from people of the companions of the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him):
Musa ibn Harun narrated and said that Amru ibn Hammad narrated and said that Asbath narrated from al-Suddi in the report mentioned, from Abu Malik, and from Abu Salih, from ibn 'Abbas and from Murrah, from ibn Masud and from people of the companions of the prophet (peace and blessings be upon him):


"...and the sky a canopy..." The canopy of the sky over the earth '''is in the form of a dome''', and it is a roof over the earth. And Bishr bin Mu'az narrated and said from Yazid from Sa'id from Qatada in the words of Allah "...and the sky a canopy..." He says he makes the sky your roof.}}
"...and the sky a canopy..." The canopy of the sky over the earth '''is in the form of a dome''', and it is a roof over the earth. And Bishr bin Mu'az narrated and said from Yazid from Sa'id from Qatada in the words of Allah "...and the sky a canopy..." He says he makes the sky your roof.}}


===The Earth on the back of a whale===
===The Earth on the back of a whale===
Al-Tabari's tafsir contains other indications of a common flat Earth belief. For example, regarding {{Quran|68|1}}, which mysteriously starts with the Arabic letter nun, he (and many other tafsirs) records that one of the interpretations among sahaba such as ibn 'Abbas was that the 'nun' is a whale on whose back the Earth is carried (another interpretation was that it was an inkwell). The evidence is extensively documented on other websites, so the interested reader is refered to them.<ref>https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/muhammads-magical-mountain-one-whale-of-a-tale/</ref><ref>http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/whale_nun.htm</ref>
Al-Tabari's tafsir contains other indications of a common flat Earth belief. For example, regarding {{Quran|68|1}}, which mysteriously starts with the Arabic letter nun, he (and many other tafsirs) records that one of the interpretations among sahabah such as ibn 'Abbas was that the 'nun' is a whale on whose back the Earth is carried (another interpretation were that it was an inkwell, or a name of Allah). The evidence is extensively documented including narrations with sahih chains from the sahabah, so the interested reader is refered to them.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVhsVjXJzKM Youtube.com] Islam & the whale that carries the Earth on its back - Video by TheMaskedArab</ref><ref>[https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/muhammads-magical-mountain-one-whale-of-a-tale/ AnsweringIslamBlog.wordpress.com] - Muhammad's Magical Mountain: One Whale of a Tail!</ref><ref>[http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/whale_nun.htm Answering-Islam.com] - The Quran and The Shape of the Earth</ref>


==Conclusion==
==Conclusion==
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==External links==
==External links==
* [http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/seven_earths.html Answering Islam] - The Seven Earths
* [http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/seven_earths.html Answering Islam] - The Seven Earths
* [https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/muhammads-magical-mountain-one-whale-of-a-tale/ Answering Islam Blog] - Muhammad's Magical Mountain: One Whale of a Tail!
* [https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/muhammads-magical-mountain-one-whale-of-a-tale/ AnsweringIslamBlog.wordpress.com] - Muhammad's Magical Mountain: One Whale of a Tail!
* [http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/whale_nun.htm Answering Islam] - The Quran and The Shape of the Earth
* [http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/whale_nun.htm Answering-Islam.com] - The Quran and The Shape of the Earth
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVhsVjXJzKM Youtube.com] Islam & the whale that carries the Earth on its back - Video by TheMaskedArab


==References==
==References==
{{Reflist|30em}}
{{Reflist|30em}}
[[Category:Islam and Science]]
{{page_title|Did Muhammad and the Earliest Muslims know the Earth is Round?}}
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