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This article analyses the claim that Quran told that universe has been constantly expanding, and it is [[Islam and Science|scientifically]] accurate, and thus it is is Quranic miracle. 
==Re: new page proposal==


==Apologetic Claim==
This is a new article which I was unable to find at wikiislam.
Apologists present the following verse
{{Quote|[https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/51/47/default.htm Quran 51:47]|وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُون
Since I don't have the right to create new Pages, therefore I had to publish this new article at my talk page (which luckily I am able to edit).  


'''Muhammad Assad:''' AND IT IS We who have built the universe with [Our creative] power; and, verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it.
Therefore, I request you to please create a new page for this article, so that I could transfer it there. Thanks.


'''Dr. Mohammad Tahir-ul-Qadri:''' And We built the heavenly universe with great might. And surely, We are expanding (this universe) more and more}}
:Hey Kamran! Sorry again that no one got back to you sooner on this, someone certainly should have (I was myself traveling and unable to access the wiki). Will look to see editor's requests aren't neglected in this manner going forward. Three things regarding your page proposal:
[[Zakir Naik]] writes regarding this verse:
{{Quote|[http://web.archive.org/save/https://sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf The Quran and Modern Science by Zakir Naik]|The Arabic word mûsi‘ûn is correctly translated as ‘expanding it’, and it refers to the creation of the expanding vastness of the universe. Stephen Hawking, in his book, ‘A Brief History of Time’, says, “The discovery that the universe is expanding was one of the great intellectual revolutions of the
20th century.” The Qur’aan mentioned the expansion of the universe, before man even learnt to build a telescope!}}


==Criticism==
:1) I will discuss with other admins whether this topic is large enough to merit its own wiki page.
Critics point out that:


*This translation of verse 51:47 is not correct.
:2) personally, I don't think this topic is vast or complicated enough to merit its own page, but I do think it is an important topic (i.e. it appears that the quran actually claims god is expanding universe and this is not just some crazy apologetic interpretation) and so should be included on the wiki. I think you should add this topic as a subsection to the [[Cosmology of the Quran]] page. Your write up looks pretty good here, although I might edit some language after you post it there (but everything on the wiki is always a work in progress, so no problem there). Just to note quickly, though: don't use fighting language - think of your role as documentary ("modern Islamic scholars say xyz" not "modern Muslim apologists have deliberately and deceptively altered the meaning of..." - see the difference?). As frustrating as it might be, its not our place to accuse Islamic scholars of being "deliberately deceptive apologists", etc. - they may be that, but that's for others to decide. The wiki's goal is just to communicate what they say. Using antagonistic language just alienates those on the fence about leaving Islam, which is our most important audience. Cool?
*Only modern apologists started doing this translation, otherwise no earlier translator did this translation.
*And none of the Qur'an Mufassirin (i.e. Quran interpreters) of last fourteen centuries ever come to this conclusion from this verse.


===Correct translation of verse 51:47===
:3) thirdly, and this too is no fault of yours, but you should have been provided with a sandbox page to prep this write up. The talk page should only be used for talking. Sorry you were not provided this sooner. I'm going to move your draft to your personal sandbox, which I just made here: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/User:Kamranlashari/Sandbox_1. You can also use these sandboxes I've made for you: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/User:Kamranlashari/Sandbox_2 & https://wikiislam.net/wiki/User:Kamranlashari/Sandbox_3.
The dispute is only about the last two words of the verse 51:47 (i.e. وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ wa-innā lamūsiʿūna''')'''


According to the critics:
:Thanks for your patience and sorry for the delay getting back to you.


*وَإِنَّا (wa-innā) means "and indeed, We (Allah)"
:[[User:IbnPinker|IbnPinker]] ([[User talk:IbnPinker|talk]]) 20:24, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
*And لَمُوسِعُونَ (lamūsiʿūna) means "are the Expander".


Therefore, the correct translation of this verse should be:
::Hey, it turns out the linking-to-someone's-page-to-notify-them doesn't work or something. Working with the admins to rectify this now, this was the reason why no one got back to you. Sorry again about the inconvenience. [[User:IbnPinker|IbnPinker]] ([[User talk:IbnPinker|talk]]) 21:16, 22 August 2021 (UTC)


<blockquote>(Quran 51:47)''And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, '''We (Allah) are [its] expander'''.''</blockquote>
::There's a section on this miracle claim on the [[Scientific Miracles in the Quran]] page. That might be the best place for adding some extra points (the Cosmology page is more of an overview of academic work on the overall cosmology/cosmography rather than modern apologetics). There used to be a page dedicated to the big bang miracle claim (which involves two verses) with lots of detailed points, but it got deleted and now only exists on the archive (can be found by google), though the archive version was itself two years out of date and missing some subsequent improvements that were unfortunately lost when the live page was deleted.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 22:02, 22 August 2021 (UTC)


The term “lamūsi‘ūn” in this verse is a "'''NOUN'''"  and not a "'''Verb'''", and it '''describes "God" and not the "heaven"''' (i.e. the term “lamūsi‘ūn” means "God is the Expander", and not "the Universe is Expanding").
==Remarrying and Blasphemy==
 
Please check Discord for what I have said on these two articles--[[User:Asmith|Asmith]] ([[User talk:Asmith|talk]]) 12:01, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
The earlier Quran Translators did the correct translation:
 
{{Quote|[https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/51/47/default.htm Quran 51:47]|'''Yusuf Ali:''' With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: '''''for it is We Who create the vastness of space'''''.
 
'''Pickthal:''' We have built the heaven with might, and '''''We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof)'''''.
 
'''Shakir:''' And the heaven, We raised it high with power, '''''and most surely We are the makers of things ample'''''.
 
'''Word by Word Translation:''' And the heaven We constructed it with strength, '''''and indeed, We (are) surely (its) Expanders'''''.}}
 
=== Wؒord "وسع''":'' Literal Meaning vs Figurative Meaning ===
The root word of لَمُوسِعُونَ (lamūsiʿūna) is وسع . However in Quran, this word and it's derivatives have been used in the meanings of "'''Encompassing"'''.
 
Look at the following verses:
{{Quote|[http://quranx.com/6.80 Quran 6:80]|وَسِعَ رَبِّى كُلَّ شَىْءٍ عِلْمًا
 
'''Sahih Intl:''' My Lord encompasses all things in knowledge
 
'''Yusuf Ali:''' My Lord comprehendeth in His knowledge all things}}
Also see verses [https://quranx.com/7.89 7:89] and [https://quranx.com/20.98 20:98].
 
Also see verse 65:12, where directly the word of "'''احاط'''" (encompass) has been used instead of "wasi'a"
{{Quote|[http://quranx.com/65.12 Quran 65:12]|وَأَنَّ ٱللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَىْءٍ عِلْمًۢا
 
'''Sahih Intl:''' and that Allah has encompassed all things in knowledge.
 
'''Pickthall:'''and that Allah surroundeth all things in knowledge.}}
So, then verse 51.47 must be understood as follows: '''"And the heaven We built it with might and We lamūsi‘ūn (encompasses it)."'''
 
This verse confirms that the heaven is completely within and under God’s control. There is no reference whatsoever to expansion of the heaven. The term “''lamūsi‘ūn''” '''describes God not the heaven'''.
 
ٖThus few translator used this figurative translation:
{{Quote|[https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/51/47/default.htm Quran 51:47]|'''Farook Malik:''' We have built the heavens with Our hands, ''for We have the power to do so''.
 
'''Abdul Majid Daryabadi:'''  And the heaven! We have built it with might, ''and verily We are powerful''.
 
'''Maududi:''' And heaven – We made it with Our Own Power ''and We have the Power to do so''.}}
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
{{reflist}}

Latest revision as of 12:02, 7 February 2022

Re: new page proposal

This is a new article which I was unable to find at wikiislam.

Since I don't have the right to create new Pages, therefore I had to publish this new article at my talk page (which luckily I am able to edit).

Therefore, I request you to please create a new page for this article, so that I could transfer it there. Thanks.

Hey Kamran! Sorry again that no one got back to you sooner on this, someone certainly should have (I was myself traveling and unable to access the wiki). Will look to see editor's requests aren't neglected in this manner going forward. Three things regarding your page proposal:
1) I will discuss with other admins whether this topic is large enough to merit its own wiki page.
2) personally, I don't think this topic is vast or complicated enough to merit its own page, but I do think it is an important topic (i.e. it appears that the quran actually claims god is expanding universe and this is not just some crazy apologetic interpretation) and so should be included on the wiki. I think you should add this topic as a subsection to the Cosmology of the Quran page. Your write up looks pretty good here, although I might edit some language after you post it there (but everything on the wiki is always a work in progress, so no problem there). Just to note quickly, though: don't use fighting language - think of your role as documentary ("modern Islamic scholars say xyz" not "modern Muslim apologists have deliberately and deceptively altered the meaning of..." - see the difference?). As frustrating as it might be, its not our place to accuse Islamic scholars of being "deliberately deceptive apologists", etc. - they may be that, but that's for others to decide. The wiki's goal is just to communicate what they say. Using antagonistic language just alienates those on the fence about leaving Islam, which is our most important audience. Cool?
3) thirdly, and this too is no fault of yours, but you should have been provided with a sandbox page to prep this write up. The talk page should only be used for talking. Sorry you were not provided this sooner. I'm going to move your draft to your personal sandbox, which I just made here: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/User:Kamranlashari/Sandbox_1. You can also use these sandboxes I've made for you: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/User:Kamranlashari/Sandbox_2 & https://wikiislam.net/wiki/User:Kamranlashari/Sandbox_3.
Thanks for your patience and sorry for the delay getting back to you.
IbnPinker (talk) 20:24, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
Hey, it turns out the linking-to-someone's-page-to-notify-them doesn't work or something. Working with the admins to rectify this now, this was the reason why no one got back to you. Sorry again about the inconvenience. IbnPinker (talk) 21:16, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
There's a section on this miracle claim on the Scientific Miracles in the Quran page. That might be the best place for adding some extra points (the Cosmology page is more of an overview of academic work on the overall cosmology/cosmography rather than modern apologetics). There used to be a page dedicated to the big bang miracle claim (which involves two verses) with lots of detailed points, but it got deleted and now only exists on the archive (can be found by google), though the archive version was itself two years out of date and missing some subsequent improvements that were unfortunately lost when the live page was deleted.Lightyears (talk) 22:02, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Remarrying and Blasphemy

Please check Discord for what I have said on these two articles--Asmith (talk) 12:01, 7 February 2022 (UTC)