2,743
edits
Talk:The Quran and Mountains: Difference between revisions
→Response to Lightyears
mNo edit summary |
Lightyears (talk | contribs) |
||
| (3 intermediate revisions by one other user not shown) | |||
| Line 10: | Line 10: | ||
:I think it's true though that there is a need for better structuring and making it a bit more concise. The apologetic claims with mountains in the Quran are 1) The claim that they are like pegs in structure or function, and 2) that they stabilise the earth which comes in two flavours, a) the claim that they reduce earthquakes or b) the isostasy claim. As you've mentioned, these in fact are both scientific errors when properly analysed. Then there are in addition the other errors about mountains being cast down, and it's an ongoing process etc. where you made use of the scientific errors page. I'm not sure whether that should come first or after the other stuff but it needs to be well organized. | :I think it's true though that there is a need for better structuring and making it a bit more concise. The apologetic claims with mountains in the Quran are 1) The claim that they are like pegs in structure or function, and 2) that they stabilise the earth which comes in two flavours, a) the claim that they reduce earthquakes or b) the isostasy claim. As you've mentioned, these in fact are both scientific errors when properly analysed. Then there are in addition the other errors about mountains being cast down, and it's an ongoing process etc. where you made use of the scientific errors page. I'm not sure whether that should come first or after the other stuff but it needs to be well organized. | ||
:One other missing point that could be added in terms of the function of pegs issue is that pegs fasten one thing to another. While not obvious to some people from the images, it's worth pointing out that the mountains ''are'' part of the crust (not separate material like a peg) and they just go deeper into the mantel, which is molten and not a solid mass to which the mountains are fastening anything.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 03:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC) | :One other missing point that could be added in terms of the function of pegs issue is that pegs fasten one thing to another. While not obvious to some people from the images, it's worth pointing out that the mountains ''are'' part of the crust (not separate material like a peg) and they just go deeper into the mantel, which is molten and not a solid mass to which the mountains are fastening anything.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 03:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC) | ||
===Response to [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]]=== | |||
::Your response is Highly appreciable. You have made very good and strong points. | |||
(1) Your criticism of the tradition of History is Yaqubi is correct and it does praise Muhammad later. It should be removed. | |||
(2) Regarding Verse 70:4. Yes, Muslims will use it as an excuse. Your suggestion is also acceptable to leave it till the mention of Quranic verse of 6 days creation, or the hadith from Sahih Muslim which claims it was the 2nd day of creation when the mountains were created. | |||
Nevertheless, still a question is if we should step back and let them go away by making such excuse of 70:4, or will it be BENEFICIAL if we counter their excuse with arguments/proofs? | |||
Issue is that this Quranic verse 70:4 is still not SPECIFICALLY proving that the time with Allah is "unspecified". Thus this Muslim claim of "unspecified time" is not Strong enough. | |||
And we could refute the verse 70:4 by saying: "The Critics point out that verse 70:4 is a contradiction in Quran itself, which shows that the writer of Quran is a human, and he himself forgot that he declared the day with him equal to 1000 years of human reckoning at other place". | |||
It may not sound as an absolute proof, but it is '''OUR correct position''' on this issue, and it should be thus mentioned merely alone on the basis of what we really believe. | |||
(3) Regarding Ahadith and Tafasir: Yes off course they could not contradict the Quranic Verse, but the issue is that Quranic Verse is itself not supporting the Muslim claim that the time is "unspecified". It is not a proof from Muslims, but it is counted as a statement/conjecture. And this statement could indeed be rejected by Ahadith and the Tafasir, who all confirm that all the Sahaba pointed out that Quran mentioned the "specified" time of human reckoning during the process of creation. | |||
Our proof becomes more powerful as all the Ahadith and Tafasir also confirm that sahaba were of the same opinion too. | |||
Please note, I am not talking about the "absolute proofs", but about having "'''better proofs'''" than the other side. | |||
(4) Bulleted proofs could be removed, or I search further and find out when the first mountain was formed and for how long did the earth stay in the molten state.At every cost, it seems that if would be much longer period than the 6x1000 years, or even 6x50000 years. | |||
And at the end, I want to make it clear that I have absolutely no problem if all the edits are reversed. I wholeheartedly welcome this move too if admins believe it to be more beneficial. I have ZERO Ego in this regard and fully accept the authority of admins without getting upset. So please feel free in editing, deleting any of my stuff. Thanks. | |||
::Thankyou for your understanding and suggestions. I have now integrated your edits including a version of the time point and restructured the article to better organise the various types of apologetics and criticisms on the topic.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 02:57, 20 October 2021 (UTC) | |||
[[User:Lehrasap|Lehrasap]] ([[User talk:Lehrasap|talk]]) 18:59, 19 October 2021 (UTC) | |||