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:Thanks for your edits and on the other article. I'll let [[User:IbnPinker|IbnPinker]] work out how to integrate your edits here as he recently rewrote the introduction and a few other parts. We have a format standard whereby there should be an introductory paragraph or two. Before making extensive edits I also recommend reading https://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Message_to_New_Users and the pages linked therein. For example, if you drill down you'll find the page which explains how to cite hadiths using the templates, use quote blocks etc. https://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Source_Editing#Referencing_Hadith | :Thanks for your edits and on the other article. I'll let [[User:IbnPinker|IbnPinker]] work out how to integrate your edits here as he recently rewrote the introduction and a few other parts. We have a format standard whereby there should be an introductory paragraph or two. Before making extensive edits I also recommend reading https://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Message_to_New_Users and the pages linked therein. For example, if you drill down you'll find the page which explains how to cite hadiths using the templates, use quote blocks etc. https://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Source_Editing#Referencing_Hadith | ||
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:One other missing point that could be added in terms of the function of pegs issue is that pegs fasten one thing to another. While not obvious to some people from the images, it's worth pointing out that the mountains ''are'' part of the crust (not separate material like a peg) and they just go deeper into the mantel, which is molten and not a solid mass to which the mountains are fastening anything.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 03:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC) | :One other missing point that could be added in terms of the function of pegs issue is that pegs fasten one thing to another. While not obvious to some people from the images, it's worth pointing out that the mountains ''are'' part of the crust (not separate material like a peg) and they just go deeper into the mantel, which is molten and not a solid mass to which the mountains are fastening anything.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 03:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC) | ||
== | ===Response to [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]]=== | ||
::Your response is Highly appreciable. You have made very good and strong points. | |||
== | |||
(1) Your criticism of the tradition of History is Yaqubi is correct and it does praise Muhammad later. It should be removed. | |||
(2) Regarding Verse 70:4. Yes, Muslims will use it as an excuse. Your suggestion is also acceptable to leave it till the mention of Quranic verse of 6 days creation, or the hadith from Sahih Muslim which claims it was the 2nd day of creation when the mountains were created. | |||
Nevertheless, still a question is if we should step back and let them go away by making such excuse of 70:4, or will it be BENEFICIAL if we counter their excuse with arguments/proofs? | |||
Issue is that this Quranic verse 70:4 is still not SPECIFICALLY proving that the time with Allah is "unspecified". Thus this Muslim claim of "unspecified time" is not Strong enough. | |||
And we could refute the verse 70:4 by saying: "The Critics point out that verse 70:4 is a contradiction in Quran itself, which shows that the writer of Quran is a human, and he himself forgot that he declared the day with him equal to 1000 years of human reckoning at other place". | |||
It may not sound as an absolute proof, but it is '''OUR correct position''' on this issue, and it should be thus mentioned merely alone on the basis of what we really believe. | |||
(3) Regarding Ahadith and Tafasir: Yes off course they could not contradict the Quranic Verse, but the issue is that Quranic Verse is itself not supporting the Muslim claim that the time is "unspecified". It is not a proof from Muslims, but it is counted as a statement/conjecture. And this statement could indeed be rejected by Ahadith and the Tafasir, who all confirm that all the Sahaba pointed out that Quran mentioned the "specified" time of human reckoning during the process of creation. | |||
Our proof becomes more powerful as all the Ahadith and Tafasir also confirm that sahaba were of the same opinion too. | |||
Please note, I am not talking about the "absolute proofs", but about having "'''better proofs'''" than the other side. | |||
(4) Bulleted proofs could be removed, or I search further and find out when the first mountain was formed and for how long did the earth stay in the molten state.At every cost, it seems that if would be much longer period than the 6x1000 years, or even 6x50000 years. | |||
And at the end, I want to make it clear that I have absolutely no problem if all the edits are reversed. I wholeheartedly welcome this move too if admins believe it to be more beneficial. I have ZERO Ego in this regard and fully accept the authority of admins without getting upset. So please feel free in editing, deleting any of my stuff. Thanks. | |||
::Thankyou for your understanding and suggestions. I have now integrated your edits including a version of the time point and restructured the article to better organise the various types of apologetics and criticisms on the topic.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 02:57, 20 October 2021 (UTC) | |||
[[User: | [[User:Lehrasap|Lehrasap]] ([[User talk:Lehrasap|talk]]) 18:59, 19 October 2021 (UTC) |